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Forums - General - How something can come from nothing

BenVTrigger on 25 November 2012
darkknightkryta said:
Jay520 said:
BenVTrigger said:

Its one in the same thing. Big. gang isnt the origin as the universe existed prior to it just in a.  ifferent state.  Thus Big Bang transformed the Universe it didnt create it.  For all we inow the Universe is infinite and goes through all sorts of different cycles.  We litteraly know nothing prior to Big Bang

What if time was created at the same time as the big bang?

No, you need that conversion of energy so the singularity had to exist before something triggered it to expand out.  And to Ben, you're playing with Semantics, which is fair, but we have a good idea on where our universe came from.  We just don't know what created a singularity of, as my astrophysics teacher said, infinite mass (Not sure how infinite it can be if matter is finite in the universe).  Nor do we know what set it off to expand out.

Again though your saying we have a good idea where the Universe came from.  We dont.  We have a good idea of when we think the Big Bang happened.

For all we know there been multitudes of Big Bangs in hundreds of million of Universes and we couod be one blip in the cosmic span of the multiverse.

We litteraly have zero knowledge of Origin  



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Jay520 on 25 November 2012
darkknightkryta said:

No, you need that conversion of energy so the singularity had to exist before something triggered it to expand out.  And to Ben, you're playing with Semantics, which is fair, but we have a good idea on where our universe came from.  We just don't know what created a singularity of, as my astrophysics teacher said, infinite mass (Not sure how infinite it can be if matter is finite in the universe).  Nor do we know what set it off to expand out.

I didn't that would make sense. I was just wondering what his response would be.



darkknightkryta on 25 November 2012
BenVTrigger said:
darkknightkryta said:
Jay520 said:
BenVTrigger said:

Its one in the same thing. Big. gang isnt the origin as the universe existed prior to it just in a.  ifferent state.  Thus Big Bang transformed the Universe it didnt create it.  For all we inow the Universe is infinite and goes through all sorts of different cycles.  We litteraly know nothing prior to Big Bang

What if time was created at the same time as the big bang?

No, you need that conversion of energy so the singularity had to exist before something triggered it to expand out.  And to Ben, you're playing with Semantics, which is fair, but we have a good idea on where our universe came from.  We just don't know what created a singularity of, as my astrophysics teacher said, infinite mass (Not sure how infinite it can be if matter is finite in the universe).  Nor do we know what set it off to expand out.

Again though your saying we have a good idea where the Universe came from.  We dont.  We have a good idea of when we think the Big Bang happened.

For all we know there been multitudes of Big Bangs in hundreds of million of Universes and we couod be one blip in the cosmic span of the multiverse.

We litteraly have zero knowledge of Origin  

No, I said "our" universe.  The theory for how the singularity came about in the mutliverse deals with two branes interacting with each other.  If that's true then there's still the bigger question of what created n-branes. But that's irrelevant to matter being created from a singulatiry of energy which is probablly how our universe came to be.



Player1x3 on 26 November 2012
Zappykins said:

 

The questions you are asking is beyond wither a God or Gods exist or not.  Because if there is a God what created it? 

 


This is such a stupid question, seriously. God is timeless. He had no beginning nor the end. If something had no beginning, it had no creation, it was just always there. It didnt need a creation.  This is of course impossible for a human mind to comprehand, but its actually only logical. In order for something to create time, it itself has to be timeless. 



KungKras on 26 November 2012
Soleron said:

I favour the idea that 'nothing' is a sea of random spontaneous energy. Sometimes, given enough time, a universe forms. Sometimes a universe is destroyed. This is the simplest and most natural extension of what we already know about vacuum. The universe's laws and so on are actually unique to it and a property of its formation rather than universal truth.

The conception of 'nothing' as truly empty and uneventful is a human thing and at odds with quantum mechanics.


*concept*



I LOVE ICELAND!

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KungKras on 26 November 2012
Stefan.De.Machtige said:

It's a pointless OP.

Unless someone has put together an experiment where something comes forth out of nothing, it's just a bunch of words.

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/111117_casimir.htm



I LOVE ICELAND!

KungKras on 26 November 2012
Slimebeast said:

It's sad how atheists try to rationalize the concept that something came out of nothing.

"a sea of random spontaneous energy"

"the laws didn't exist before matter so we can ignore these laws"

"There are infinite possibilites that could have created these laws"

"There's a balance between matter and anti-matter so a universe could pop up anywhere anytime"

"there could be an infinite amount of universes which makes it plausible for our particular universe to come into being"

Yea, silly us. A wizard did it of course!



I LOVE ICELAND!

Soleron on 26 November 2012
KungKras said:
Soleron said:

I favour the idea that 'nothing' is a sea of random spontaneous energy. Sometimes, given enough time, a universe forms. Sometimes a universe is destroyed. This is the simplest and most natural extension of what we already know about vacuum. The universe's laws and so on are actually unique to it and a property of its formation rather than universal truth.

The conception of 'nothing' as truly empty and uneventful is a human thing and at odds with quantum mechanics.


*concept*

Conception is also acceptable, as in "misconception". 



Soleron on 26 November 2012
Slimebeast said:

It's sad how atheists try to rationalize the concept that something came out of nothing.

"a sea of random spontaneous energy"

"the laws didn't exist before matter so we can ignore these laws"

"There are infinite possibilites that could have created these laws"

"There's a balance between matter and anti-matter so a universe could pop up anywhere anytime"

"there could be an infinite amount of universes which makes it plausible for our particular universe to come into being"

I like you.

But.

"a sea of random spontaneous energy"

There is good evidence that this is how the universe is right now. I'm only speculating that that caused the universe, we don't know that, but the premise is good science.

"the laws didn't exist before matter so we can ignore these laws"
"There are infinite possibilites that could have created these laws"

That's exactly the point. We don't know. We can't know yet, without better methods. So it makes no sense to say you KNOW God did it either. There's no way we can tell but we can put in some reasonable guesses. And, sure, a creator is one of those guesses. Saying that creator was an omniscient, benevolent God is a big stretch though. What if some random aliens were the creator? Would they be worthy of worship?

"There's a balance between matter and anti-matter so a universe could pop up anywhere anytime"

Well, it can. We have good evidence that anything can happen at any time. That isn't just speculation.

"there could be an infinite amount of universes which makes it plausible for our particular universe to come into being"

There could be. I mean, religion in the 16th century was all like, "Earth is the centre of the universe and we will execute anyone who says otherwise". Turned out it wasn't. What if our universe isn't special either? The Bible is so anthropocentric it's insane.



IIIIITHE1IIIII on 26 November 2012
Player1x3 said:
Zappykins said:

 

The questions you are asking is beyond wither a God or Gods exist or not.  Because if there is a God what created it? 

 


This is such a stupid question, seriously. God is timeless. He had no beginning nor the end. If something had no beginning, it had no creation, it was just always there. It didnt need a creation.  This is of course impossible for a human mind to comprehand, but its actually only logical. In order for something to create time, it itself has to be timeless. 


I understand your reasoning, but it doesn't rule out the possibility of there being more than one creator (nor does it specify that the creator is good, instead of evil or both). Also, using that logic, an atheist may claim that matter is timeless and had no creation.