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Forums - Nintendo - Wii U specs are surprising, says Sonic developer, specifically the GPU and memory

lilbroex on 27 August 2012
Kynes said:
Baron said:
...

It has become clear to me you have little understanding of hardware and power profiles. The Wii had a 20 Watt TDP because its hardware is based on components developed in 2001 originally manufactured with a 180nm proces then downsized to 90nm for the Wii. Again, size =/= power profile.

I also never said the GPU in the Wii U is going to have a 50 Watt TDP. I only compared the difference in performance relative to TDP in just two years time by using the 2600 XT and the 4650 as an example. If the Wii U GPU really is manufactured with a 40nm process as rumors suggest then the 5570 with a TDP of 'only' 39 Watts is plenty to smash the performance of the 360's Xenos.

Your assumption seems to be based solely on the fact that the Wii U isn't much bigger than the Wii. Understandable but mistaken.

Until we know what kind of power profile Nintendo has in mind we can't say anything without them being baseless assumptions.

I don't know anything about hardware and power profiles. I've been reading silentpcreview since ~2005, Beyond3D since 2004, I've done overclocking with undervolting to my laptops, my studies are equivalent to an electrical engineering, and I work with hardware, but I know nothing of it.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't have unreasonable expectations of the power that a console with that aspect ratio could have. WiiU seems to be at most two times the volume of Wii, Nintendo shouldn't make a console with a power envelope higher than 50-60W with that aspect ratio, or we will have consoles that die due to thermal fatigue as X360 and PS3 suffered this gen.

I'm sure that Nintendo want a failure rate in the low single digit range, and putting >80W in a box of that size is looking for problems.

Beyond3D is a terrible source of information. For all the tech heads their, it doesn't amount ot much do to their tremendously egocentric nature and bias towards their own self-interests.

So much of their analysis is just baseless opinion based on the personal preferences of their administration who do not allow any form of challenge to their divine wisdom. They take facts then mix them with their fantasies. Only about 50% of what comes from them is worth more than a grain a salt.

If you were geting info from them then I would reccomend another, better source that that is capable of making unbiased judgements and is open to more possibilities.

Nintendo has two primary interests when it comes to design. Cost effectivenss and appealing to the largest number of people.



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archbrix on 27 August 2012
xLeftyx said:
archbrix said:
xLeftyx said:
"Surprise" could mean either way. All this tells us how shocked they were in porting their games. This neither reveals Wii U's power nor how will it fare once the next PS3 or Xbox 360 come out.

No, the article clearly illustrates they're giving praise to WiiU's GPU and memory, not shocked at underperformance, so "surprise" doesn't go either way in this case.  WiiU's power relative to its 8th gen competition is another matter entirely.

Precisely. Their comment is in comparison to PS3 and Xbox 360. Is it not a given that Wii U is to be stronger than PS3 / Xbox 360. That fact that this is even a discussion doesn't bode well for Wii U's capability once other next gen systems are out.

 

@bolded:  Yes, but that's irrelevant.  You said "Surprise could mean either way", meaning that the context of "surprise" in their statement could have meant either pleasantly surprised or disappointedly surprised, which was erroneous, as they clearly meant the former.



Kynes on 27 August 2012
lilbroex said:
Kynes said:
Baron said:
...

It has become clear to me you have little understanding of hardware and power profiles. The Wii had a 20 Watt TDP because its hardware is based on components developed in 2001 originally manufactured with a 180nm proces then downsized to 90nm for the Wii. Again, size =/= power profile.

I also never said the GPU in the Wii U is going to have a 50 Watt TDP. I only compared the difference in performance relative to TDP in just two years time by using the 2600 XT and the 4650 as an example. If the Wii U GPU really is manufactured with a 40nm process as rumors suggest then the 5570 with a TDP of 'only' 39 Watts is plenty to smash the performance of the 360's Xenos.

Your assumption seems to be based solely on the fact that the Wii U isn't much bigger than the Wii. Understandable but mistaken.

Until we know what kind of power profile Nintendo has in mind we can't say anything without them being baseless assumptions.

I don't know anything about hardware and power profiles. I've been reading silentpcreview since ~2005, Beyond3D since 2004, I've done overclocking with undervolting to my laptops, my studies are equivalent to an electrical engineering, and I work with hardware, but I know nothing of it.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't have unreasonable expectations of the power that a console with that aspect ratio could have. WiiU seems to be at most two times the volume of Wii, Nintendo shouldn't make a console with a power envelope higher than 50-60W with that aspect ratio, or we will have consoles that die due to thermal fatigue as X360 and PS3 suffered this gen.

I'm sure that Nintendo want a failure rate in the low single digit range, and putting >80W in a box of that size is looking for problems.

Beyond3D is a terrible source of information. For all the tech heads their, it doesn't amount ot much do to their tremendously egocentric nature and bias towards their own self-interests.

So much of their analysis is just baseless opinion based on the personal preferences of their administration who do not allow any form of challenge to their divine wisdom. They take facts then mix them with their fantasies. Only about 50% of what comes from them is worth more than a grain a salt.

If you were geting info from them then I would reccomend another, better source that that is capable of making unbiased judgements and is open to more possibilities.

Nintendo has two primary interests when it comes to design. Cost effectivenss and appealing to the largest number of people.

Provide me a better place than where some of the guys that make the chips give some tidbits. 3DCenter? Hardware.fr?

Who are you talking about when you talk about the administration? Dave Baumann? He left the administration to Rys in 2006, because he was hired by ATI. Who then? You can't get much better info than in Beyond3D, whatever you say.



xLeftyx on 27 August 2012
archbrix said:
xLeftyx said:
archbrix said:
xLeftyx said:
"Surprise" could mean either way. All this tells us how shocked they were in porting their games. This neither reveals Wii U's power nor how will it fare once the next PS3 or Xbox 360 come out.

No, the article clearly illustrates they're giving praise to WiiU's GPU and memory, not shocked at underperformance, so "surprise" doesn't go either way in this case.  WiiU's power relative to its 8th gen competition is another matter entirely.

Precisely. Their comment is in comparison to PS3 and Xbox 360. Is it not a given that Wii U is to be stronger than PS3 / Xbox 360. That fact that this is even a discussion doesn't bode well for Wii U's capability once other next gen systems are out.

@bolded:  Yes, but that's irrelevant.  You said "Surprise could mean either way", meaning that the context of "surprise" in their statement could have meant either pleasantly surprised or disappointedly surprised, which was erroneous, as they clearly meant the former.

Fine. I'll admit it was 'poor choice of words' on my part. However, my point still stands, which is in my second post.



lilbroex on 27 August 2012
Kynes said:

Provide me a better place than where some of the guys that make the chips give some tidbits. 3DCenter? Hardware.fr?

Who are you talking about when you talk about the administration? Dave Baumann? He left the administration to Rys in 2006, because he was hired by ATI. Who then? You can't get much better info than in Beyond3D, whatever you say.


You can find plenty better, just not in one place. You should look to individual professional and specialist. Hubs are the easiest source of information, not the best.

There specialist in every field and they provide the best info. That is how obtain my own information. I don't go to a place with a bunch of enthusiast. I go to the true pros. You won't find them huddle together in one place.



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Kynes on 27 August 2012
lilbroex said:
Kynes said:

Provide me a better place than where some of the guys that make the chips give some tidbits. 3DCenter? Hardware.fr?

Who are you talking about when you talk about the administration? Dave Baumann? He left the administration to Rys in 2006, because he was hired by ATI. Who then? You can't get much better info than in Beyond3D, whatever you say.


You can find plenty better, just not in one place. You should look to individual professional and specialist. Hubs are the easiest source of information, not the best.

There specialist in every field and they provide the best info. That is how obtain my own information. I don't go to a place with a bunch of enthusiast. I go to the true pros. You won't find them huddle together in one place.

Much ado about nothing.



Baron on 27 August 2012
Kynes said:
Baron said:
...

It has become clear to me you have little understanding of hardware and power profiles. The Wii had a 20 Watt TDP because its hardware is based on components developed in 2001 originally manufactured with a 180nm proces then downsized to 90nm for the Wii. Again, size =/= power profile.

I also never said the GPU in the Wii U is going to have a 50 Watt TDP. I only compared the difference in performance relative to TDP in just two years time by using the 2600 XT and the 4650 as an example. If the Wii U GPU really is manufactured with a 40nm process as rumors suggest then the 5570 with a TDP of 'only' 39 Watts is plenty to smash the performance of the 360's Xenos.

Your assumption seems to be based solely on the fact that the Wii U isn't much bigger than the Wii. Understandable but mistaken.

Until we know what kind of power profile Nintendo has in mind we can't say anything without them being baseless assumptions.

I don't know anything about hardware and power profiles. I've been reading silentpcreview since ~2005, Beyond3D since 2004, I've done overclocking with undervolting to my laptops, my studies are equivalent to an electrical engineering, and I work with hardware, but I know nothing of it.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't have unreasonable expectations of the power that a console with that aspect ratio could have. WiiU seems to be at most two times the volume of Wii, Nintendo shouldn't make a console with a power envelope higher than 50-60W with that aspect ratio, or we will have consoles that die due to thermal fatigue as X360 and PS3 suffered this gen.

I'm sure that Nintendo want a failure rate in the low single digit range, and putting >80W in a box of that size is looking for problems.


Why do you keep going on about how the size of the console is why it will not be very powerful. For someone who claims to know a great deal about hardware and power profile you're completely missing the point. The only problem the size brings is the limited size of the fans and smaller fans tend to generate more noise. That is it.

I say the real limiting factor will be price. Nintendo will not want to create a 400 dollar console. I can see something like the 5570 being the base of the Wii U's gpu. Cheap but substantially faster than either the Xenos or the RSX.



Kynes on 27 August 2012
Baron said:
Kynes said:
Baron said:
...

It has become clear to me you have little understanding of hardware and power profiles. The Wii had a 20 Watt TDP because its hardware is based on components developed in 2001 originally manufactured with a 180nm proces then downsized to 90nm for the Wii. Again, size =/= power profile.

I also never said the GPU in the Wii U is going to have a 50 Watt TDP. I only compared the difference in performance relative to TDP in just two years time by using the 2600 XT and the 4650 as an example. If the Wii U GPU really is manufactured with a 40nm process as rumors suggest then the 5570 with a TDP of 'only' 39 Watts is plenty to smash the performance of the 360's Xenos.

Your assumption seems to be based solely on the fact that the Wii U isn't much bigger than the Wii. Understandable but mistaken.

Until we know what kind of power profile Nintendo has in mind we can't say anything without them being baseless assumptions.

I don't know anything about hardware and power profiles. I've been reading silentpcreview since ~2005, Beyond3D since 2004, I've done overclocking with undervolting to my laptops, my studies are equivalent to an electrical engineering, and I work with hardware, but I know nothing of it.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't have unreasonable expectations of the power that a console with that aspect ratio could have. WiiU seems to be at most two times the volume of Wii, Nintendo shouldn't make a console with a power envelope higher than 50-60W with that aspect ratio, or we will have consoles that die due to thermal fatigue as X360 and PS3 suffered this gen.

I'm sure that Nintendo want a failure rate in the low single digit range, and putting >80W in a box of that size is looking for problems.


Why do you keep going on about how the size of the console is why it will not be very powerful. For someone who claims to know a great deal about hardware and power profile you're completely missing the point. The only problem the size brings is the limited size of the fans and smaller fans tend to generate more noise. That is it.

I say the real limiting factor will be price. Nintendo will not want to create a 400 dollar console. I can see something like the 5570 being the base of the Wii U's gpu. Cheap but substantially faster than either the Xenos or the RSX.


Nintendo isn't going to create a console with the noise of an 1U server. You have a small box, low noise profile... that implies very low power consumption.



Baron on 27 August 2012
Kynes said:
Baron said:
Kynes said:
Baron said:
...

It has become clear to me you have little understanding of hardware and power profiles. The Wii had a 20 Watt TDP because its hardware is based on components developed in 2001 originally manufactured with a 180nm proces then downsized to 90nm for the Wii. Again, size =/= power profile.

I also never said the GPU in the Wii U is going to have a 50 Watt TDP. I only compared the difference in performance relative to TDP in just two years time by using the 2600 XT and the 4650 as an example. If the Wii U GPU really is manufactured with a 40nm process as rumors suggest then the 5570 with a TDP of 'only' 39 Watts is plenty to smash the performance of the 360's Xenos.

Your assumption seems to be based solely on the fact that the Wii U isn't much bigger than the Wii. Understandable but mistaken.

Until we know what kind of power profile Nintendo has in mind we can't say anything without them being baseless assumptions.

I don't know anything about hardware and power profiles. I've been reading silentpcreview since ~2005, Beyond3D since 2004, I've done overclocking with undervolting to my laptops, my studies are equivalent to an electrical engineering, and I work with hardware, but I know nothing of it.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't have unreasonable expectations of the power that a console with that aspect ratio could have. WiiU seems to be at most two times the volume of Wii, Nintendo shouldn't make a console with a power envelope higher than 50-60W with that aspect ratio, or we will have consoles that die due to thermal fatigue as X360 and PS3 suffered this gen.

I'm sure that Nintendo want a failure rate in the low single digit range, and putting >80W in a box of that size is looking for problems.


Why do you keep going on about how the size of the console is why it will not be very powerful. For someone who claims to know a great deal about hardware and power profile you're completely missing the point. The only problem the size brings is the limited size of the fans and smaller fans tend to generate more noise. That is it.

I say the real limiting factor will be price. Nintendo will not want to create a 400 dollar console. I can see something like the 5570 being the base of the Wii U's gpu. Cheap but substantially faster than either the Xenos or the RSX.


Nintendo isn't going to create a console with the noise of an 1U server. You have a small box, low noise profile... that implies very low power consumption.


And a 5570 doesn't need a lot of cooling as it has a low profile. There are even passive cooled versions of it. Yet it's about as fast as a 3870 which in turn is anything from 2 (DX9) to 4 (DX10) times more powerful than a 2600 XT.



Soundwave on 27 August 2012

I believe the Wii U's AC adaptor is rated at 75 watts, that's what a poster on NeoGaf posted.

I'm expecting Wii U to be slightly more powerful than a PS3/360 with the advantage of a good deal more RAM. That's about it. 

Even Mr. Miyamoto said the console won't be that much beyond the PS3/360. Nintendo needs to make a profit on this machine and give themselves price flexibility in case they have to drop the price (which they didn't have with 3DS, and caused them to have to suffer a loss to get the price down). 

If the system was leagues beyond the 360/PS3 ... dev kits have been out for like 18 months now. We would've seen somthing that's a big jump. 

Even with the Dreamcast, one look at Soul Calibur and NFL 2K an you could see it was far beyond the PS1/N64. I don't see Wii U being that sort of leap. At best I think it's the same jump between PSP and 3DS. 

And really for Nintendo that's probably plenty. None of their IP need Samitaran type visuals and Nintendo's not going to eat a loss on hardware just for the sake of multiplat third party content.