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Forums - Nintendo - Wii U specs are surprising, says Sonic developer, specifically the GPU and memory

Baron said:
Kynes said:
Baron said:
Kynes said:
Baron said:
Kynes said:
Take a look at the supposed size of the WiiU. You can't make a very powerful console with so low power requirement, I'm sure that Nintendo has done a good enough, very power optimized console (the EDRAM rumor hints to this) but it can't be several times more powerful than Xbox360 or PS3 with so tiny power profile.


We know nothing about the Wii U's power profile so I don't know why you bring that up? Size =/= power profile. Power profile is the total TDP of a console. Nintendo has always downsized their consoles along with a considerable step in power. Also, we've got 2 handhelds now that are easily capable of matching last gens hardware. The Vita is even almost as powerful as the 360 and PS3. The Wii U looks to offer a lot more room to hardware than the Vita.

As long as the casing offers sufficiënt cooling Nintendo can opt to put a GTX 680 and a i7 3960X in the Wii U. Off course that won't happen as it will make the console too expensive but size doesn't matter as much as you think

Size has everything to do with power profile and silence.


Yes to silence, no to power profile. I've seen custom built PC's no bigger than a small stereo set with the fastest cpu and gpu and water cooling built in. Super fast, high power profile and trashing console performance with ease.



I'm sure that Nintendo won't use water cooling for the WiiU. Be reasonable, what type of power profile do you think WiiU has? I'm sure that it dissipates less than 100W, it's probable that it's nearer to 50W.


I know, I'm just giving an example to prove size doesn't matter. Price and Nintendo's goals do. But your TDP estimate is only an assumption really. It could be true but nothing has been said concerning it. We've only heard rumors. Still, with something like a 80 Watt TDP the Wii U could very well be multiple times more powerful than the 360 or PS3. The ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT delivers somewhat the same theoretical performance as the Xenos does. It had a TDP of 50 Watt. If you then take a look at a Radeon 4xxx card with the same TDP you get the 4650 which is already more than twice as powerful than a 2600 XT.

I therefor see no reason why the GPU in the Wii U couldn't be several times more powerful than the Xenos.

You can't use a 50W graphics card in a 80W console. What do you leave for the processor? RAM? Flash? Wireless and LAN? Motherboard? Audio DSP?... And two things that consume a lot, media reader and refrigeration system. The numbers don't add.

PS: Wii had a power profile of 20W. WiiU isn't much bigger than Wii.



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HappySqurriel said:
prayformojo said:


A casual game is defined, generally, as a game in which someone who doesn't play games can pick up, and play. Your grandmother could NOT pick up a 360 controller and play that game online. She'd be running around in the middle of a map in circles, shooting bullets at the sky and wondering what was going on.


The only thing that would stop a grandmother from playing Call of Duty (or the vast majority of modern first person shooters) is interest ... My 9 year old nephew regularly struggles for months to be successful in games like New Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Galaxy, but can complete the typical FPS in (about) a week on normal difficulty. Modern FPS games are embarassingly easy compared to what they were in the late 90s.

Obviously, you haven't seen someone who's never held a controller before trying to play FPS games online. I have, and it's exactly as I described. They have no idea what they are doing, which buttons to push, which direction they are in and they usually die every 5 seconds because the other team/players are picking them off and laughing at their stupidity.

A casual game is a game where someone who's NEVER played a game can play it. Wii sports is a fine example. As much as we all love to hate COD, it's a core game. Just because something is popular, or easy for you and I to play, doesn't make it casual.



"Surprise" could mean either way. All this tells us how shocked they were in porting their games. This neither reveals Wii U's power nor how will it fare once the next PS3 or Xbox 360 come out.



HappySqurriel said:
lilbroex said:

The components that make up a gaming console are generally custom built with the first real exception to that being the XBox, then the 360 and PS3. They pretty much "are" desktops only with a different aesthetic design. Their chips were more or less straight replicas of existing chips.

Nintendo has always used completely custom built chips made specifically for their machines. This is no exception. People often talk of what the Wii U is based on internally giving references to things like the Power7 and 4850 but those are only bases.

The CPU and GPU in the Wii U are built to fit its specifications. Size is not a problem, nor is power.

To be entirely accurate, most consoles used very conventional technology that was obsolete based on PC standards ...

The Motorola 68000 (CPU) was introduced in 1979, was used by Apple in the early 1980s, Atari and Commodore used it in the mid 1980s for their PCs, and was the CPU of the Sega Genesis in 1989. At a time when people were spending $5,000 for an 'average' PC, Nintendo and Sega were producing $200 gaming systems because the technology was so outdated.

Before the PS2, XBox and Gamecube console manufacturers were mostly picking up components from gigantic tech companies after they were no longer useful to them. They scavenged the garbage heaps of these companies, repackaged and resold the components at a low cost and people were greatful because of how expensive new technology was at the time.

The vast majority of consoles were closer to the Wii's performance when released than the HD consoles (in relative terms).

And that brings out one of the biggest problems this gen that was caused by the PS3 and 360. Sony and Microsfot released consoles that were simply too expensive all around.

They released consoles with a higher relative jump than what has ever been seen. They didn't really jump in technology either, so much as they jumped in specs. This gen has sent a lot of big companies and good developers to bankruptcy. I'd say the PS3 and 360 almost single handedly destroyed gaming this gen.  They stifled PC gaming and saturated the market with overused genres that have become looked at as the "proper" or "core" way of gaming. People who don't follow their path are ridiculed as casual.

Nintendo is the only thing holding it together and they are on the right path by releasing systems with the "people" in mind. They aren't trying to impress with numbers. They are trying to make sure everyone enjoys themselves with "everyone" being the key word. Nintendo doens't care about high numbers because they're worthless now.

People insist on throwing NIntendo into a competition of specs, but they just don't understand. Nintendo has no interest in this graphics war.



Kynes said:
Baron said:
Kynes said:
Baron said:
Kynes said:
Baron said:
Kynes said:
Take a look at the supposed size of the WiiU. You can't make a very powerful console with so low power requirement, I'm sure that Nintendo has done a good enough, very power optimized console (the EDRAM rumor hints to this) but it can't be several times more powerful than Xbox360 or PS3 with so tiny power profile.


We know nothing about the Wii U's power profile so I don't know why you bring that up? Size =/= power profile. Power profile is the total TDP of a console. Nintendo has always downsized their consoles along with a considerable step in power. Also, we've got 2 handhelds now that are easily capable of matching last gens hardware. The Vita is even almost as powerful as the 360 and PS3. The Wii U looks to offer a lot more room to hardware than the Vita.

As long as the casing offers sufficiënt cooling Nintendo can opt to put a GTX 680 and a i7 3960X in the Wii U. Off course that won't happen as it will make the console too expensive but size doesn't matter as much as you think

Size has everything to do with power profile and silence.


Yes to silence, no to power profile. I've seen custom built PC's no bigger than a small stereo set with the fastest cpu and gpu and water cooling built in. Super fast, high power profile and trashing console performance with ease.



I'm sure that Nintendo won't use water cooling for the WiiU. Be reasonable, what type of power profile do you think WiiU has? I'm sure that it dissipates less than 100W, it's probable that it's nearer to 50W.


I know, I'm just giving an example to prove size doesn't matter. Price and Nintendo's goals do. But your TDP estimate is only an assumption really. It could be true but nothing has been said concerning it. We've only heard rumors. Still, with something like a 80 Watt TDP the Wii U could very well be multiple times more powerful than the 360 or PS3. The ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT delivers somewhat the same theoretical performance as the Xenos does. It had a TDP of 50 Watt. If you then take a look at a Radeon 4xxx card with the same TDP you get the 4650 which is already more than twice as powerful than a 2600 XT.

I therefor see no reason why the GPU in the Wii U couldn't be several times more powerful than the Xenos.

You can't use a 50W graphics card in a 80W console. What do you leave for the processor? RAM? Flash? Wireless and LAN? Motherboard? Audio DSP?... And two things that consume a lot, media reader and refrigeration system. The numbers don't add.

PS: Wii had a power profile of 20W. WiiU isn't much bigger than Wii.

It has become clear to me you have little understanding of hardware and power profiles. The Wii had a 20 Watt TDP because its hardware is based on components developed in 2001 originally manufactured with a 180nm proces then downsized to 90nm for the Wii. Again, size =/= power profile.

I also never said the GPU in the Wii U is going to have a 50 Watt TDP. I only compared the difference in performance relative to TDP in just two years time by using the 2600 XT and the 4650 as an example. If the Wii U GPU really is manufactured with a 40nm process as rumors suggest then the 5570 with a TDP of 'only' 39 Watts is plenty to smash the performance of the 360's Xenos.

Your assumption seems to be based solely on the fact that the Wii U isn't much bigger than the Wii. Understandable but mistaken.

Until we know what kind of power profile Nintendo has in mind we can't say anything without them being baseless assumptions.



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xLeftyx said:
"Surprise" could mean either way. All this tells us how shocked they were in porting their games. This neither reveals Wii U's power nor how will it fare once the next PS3 or Xbox 360 come out.

No, the article clearly illustrates they're giving praise to WiiU's GPU and memory, not shocked at underperformance, so "surprise" doesn't go either way in this case.  WiiU's power relative to its 8th gen competition is another matter entirely.



prayformojo said:
HappySqurriel said:
prayformojo said:


A casual game is defined, generally, as a game in which someone who doesn't play games can pick up, and play. Your grandmother could NOT pick up a 360 controller and play that game online. She'd be running around in the middle of a map in circles, shooting bullets at the sky and wondering what was going on.


The only thing that would stop a grandmother from playing Call of Duty (or the vast majority of modern first person shooters) is interest ... My 9 year old nephew regularly struggles for months to be successful in games like New Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Galaxy, but can complete the typical FPS in (about) a week on normal difficulty. Modern FPS games are embarassingly easy compared to what they were in the late 90s.

Obviously, you haven't seen someone who's never held a controller before trying to play FPS games online. I have, and it's exactly as I described. They have no idea what they are doing, which buttons to push, which direction they are in and they usually die every 5 seconds because the other team/players are picking them off and laughing at their stupidity.

A casual game is a game where someone who's NEVER played a game can play it. Wii sports is a fine example. As much as we all love to hate COD, it's a core game. Just because something is popular, or easy for you and I to play, doesn't make it casual.


What you're talking about is a non-gamer ...

My sister, sister-in-law and niece would all be classified as casual gamers based on their game preferences and they have no difficulty playing my nephews in their FPS du jour. In fact, my sister wanted to increase her "geek-cred" so I lent her Mass Effect 2 and Bioshock (games I knew she would enjoy from a story telling perspective) and she had no difficulty completing the game.



Baron said:
...

It has become clear to me you have little understanding of hardware and power profiles. The Wii had a 20 Watt TDP because its hardware is based on components developed in 2001 originally manufactured with a 180nm proces then downsized to 90nm for the Wii. Again, size =/= power profile.

I also never said the GPU in the Wii U is going to have a 50 Watt TDP. I only compared the difference in performance relative to TDP in just two years time by using the 2600 XT and the 4650 as an example. If the Wii U GPU really is manufactured with a 40nm process as rumors suggest then the 5570 with a TDP of 'only' 39 Watts is plenty to smash the performance of the 360's Xenos.

Your assumption seems to be based solely on the fact that the Wii U isn't much bigger than the Wii. Understandable but mistaken.

Until we know what kind of power profile Nintendo has in mind we can't say anything without them being baseless assumptions.

I don't know anything about hardware and power profiles. I've been reading silentpcreview since ~2005, Beyond3D since 2004, I've done overclocking with undervolting to my laptops, my studies are equivalent to an electrical engineering, and I work with hardware, but I know nothing of it.

I'm just saying that we shouldn't have unreasonable expectations of the power that a console with that aspect ratio could have. WiiU seems to be at most two times the volume of Wii, Nintendo shouldn't make a console with a power envelope higher than 50-60W with that aspect ratio, or we will have consoles that die due to thermal fatigue as X360 and PS3 suffered this gen.

I'm sure that Nintendo want a failure rate in the low single digit range, and putting >80W in a box of that size is looking for problems.



archbrix said:
xLeftyx said:
"Surprise" could mean either way. All this tells us how shocked they were in porting their games. This neither reveals Wii U's power nor how will it fare once the next PS3 or Xbox 360 come out.

No, the article clearly illustrates they're giving praise to WiiU's GPU and memory, not shocked at underperformance, so "surprise" doesn't go either way in this case.  WiiU's power relative to its 8th gen competition is another matter entirely.

Precisely. Their comment is in comparison to PS3 and Xbox 360. Is it not a given that Wii U is to be stronger than PS3 / Xbox 360. That fact that this is even a discussion doesn't bode well for Wii U's capability once other next gen systems are out.

Edit: To my earlier comment, I meant "How shocked they were in how easy it is to port games" Oi.



S.T.A.G.E. said:


PS3 exclusives are far from overhyped. If you pay attention you know just as well as any that Sonys achilles heel is their marketing. Xbox 360 exclusives are the most hyped as far as commercialization in the west. Be my guest if you can show me a game that has had more air time than Halo and Gears this gen. Super Mario sold extremely well because it and Duck Hunt were bundled with the original SNES and continued to be bundled with the consoles. Eventually it stuck and could sell regardless of bundles or not. I dont know if they did but when Uncharted launched I never saw special edition PS3's with Uncharted, InFamous 2, GOW or anything like it during the launch of these games. Usually its a little after when they get their initial sales. Sonys exclusives are quality, you don't have to like them, but they are KNOWN for making quality titles that are highly rated and endorse high amounts of creativity. The only place Sony has fallen behind is in multiplayer experience. if you want to compete against Xbox exclusives which majorly depend on online gameplay Sony's exclusives must do the same on par with them. The only company STILL continuing to make great core and indy exclusives into 2014 without stopping is Sony. You don't have to like them...just deal with the existence of those truths.

How bout actually prove Sony's achilles heel is marketing lol. Excuses is all you have. But i love pointing out the flaws in your argument so here we go. First off you say Halo and Gears have alot of air time, which doesnt make a difference lol, you make it sound as if games need alot of air time to sell super well. Gears and Halo do have alot of air time (which you cant prove either) but Mario and Pokemon still outsell them so what exactly is Sony's excuse. Whats so different about Sony's marketing now compared to the past lol. Not much, its just you cant get over the fact that nobody wants their games. Its not a lack of marketing its a lack of appeal. Do some research, Sony bundles way more different games then Ninty, its just Sonys tend to fail. The rest of your post is just full of how much i love Sony so no need to even respond. "Sonys exclusives are quality, you don't have to like them, but they are KNOWN for making quality titles that are highly rated and endorse high amounts of creativity.""The only company STILL continuing to make great core and indy exclusives into 2014 without stopping is Sony. You don't have to like them...just deal with the existence of those truths."  Wow this is why you cant come up with good responses. You love Sony so much you dont want to see the truth of how they cant make a decent selling game to save their lives, just ask the Vita and its dire situation.