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Forums - Nintendo - Wii U specs are surprising, says Sonic developer, specifically the GPU and memory

Kynes on 27 August 2012
lilbroex said:

The components that make up a gaming console are generally custom built with the first real exception to that being the XBox, then the 360 and PS3. They pretty much "are" desktops only with a different aesthetic design. Their chips were pretty much straight replica of existing chips.

Nintendo has always used completely custom built chips made specifically for there machines. This is no exception. People often talk of what the Wii U is based on internally giving references to things like the Power7 and 4850 but those are only bases.

The CPU and GPU in the Wii U are built to fit its specifications. Size is not a problem, nor is power.

That's not true, at all. X360 Xenon and Xenos aren't replicas of existing chips. Tell me the ATI equivalent to Xenos. Cell is as much custom as a chip can be. The only one that can be considered derived of a desktop chip is RSX, and even that chip has differences as an 128 GDDR3 bus instead of 256 bits in the desktop part, with half ROPs due to this half width memory controller, and an integrated XDR memory controller.



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Kynes on 27 August 2012
lilbroex said:
Kynes said:


Done with 45 nm tech. Chips done with the same fabrication technology, with the same power envelope, can't be several times faster than other chips unless there is a big design flaw. We supposedly have here a WiiU console with a smaller power envelope than X360 and PS3, but several times faster... I'm sure that MS and Sony Engineers aren't retarded.


ummm...Microsoft and Sony don't make their chips. Nvidia and AMD do. I'm not sure who makes the Cell now though.

Making major changes to the chip architecture would affect system compatibility to some small degree. Its not so simple.

Do you really think that X360 and PS3 still use 90 nm technology?



Crono141 on 27 August 2012
lilbroex said:
Kynes said:


Done with 45 nm tech. Chips done with the same fabrication technology, with the same power envelope, can't be several times faster than other chips unless there is a big design flaw. We supposedly have here a WiiU console with a smaller power envelope than X360 and PS3, but several times faster... I'm sure that MS and Sony Engineers aren't retarded.


ummm...Microsoft and Sony don't make their chips. Nvidia and AMD do. I'm not sure who makes the Cell now though.

Making major changes to the chip architecture would affect system compatibility to some small degree. Its not so simple.

IBM makes the chips in PS3, Xbox360, and Wii.



Check out my Youtube Let's Play channel here.

Kynes on 27 August 2012
Crono141 said:
Kynes said:
Crono141 said:
Kynes said:
lilbroex said:
Kynes said:
lilbroex said:
Kynes said:
Take a look at the supposed size of the WiiU. You can't make a very powerful console with so low power requirement, I'm sure that Nintendo has done a good enough, very power optimized console (the EDRAM rumor hints to this) but it can't be several times more powerful than Xbox360 or PS3 with so tiny power profile.


I take it you haven't been paying a whoe lot of attention to gaming laptops in rencent years?

Over time parts become much more energy efficient at smaller sizes. Look at the size of the N64 then look at the size of the DSi Lite. There isn't really much to it beside working out the tech.

You can make a system taht is 5 times the strength of the PS3/360 that is is 1/4 its size.

Nintendo's main focus is price.


I have been paying attention to gaming laptops, as I have one. They are harvested, underclocked and undervolted chips, only that. They are more efficient than desktop chips as power consumption increases quadratically with the voltage, and you can approximate it to a lineal increase with the speed. Laptop parts aren't different than desktop parts, at all, unless you are talking of the underpowered Intel Atom and things like that.

Since you understand that, you should also understand that a game console is not  a desktop...

XBox360 and PS3 aren't desktops, too.

Nope, but they are also 5-7 year old tech.


Done with 45 nm tech. Chips done with the same fabrication technology, with the same power envelope, can't be several times faster than other chips unless there is a big design flaw. We supposedly have here a WiiU console with a smaller power envelope than X360 and PS3, but several times faster... I'm sure that MS and Sony Engineers aren't retarded.


I must have missed the leak or confirmation that the WiiU's CPU and GPU are 45 nm dies.

http://wiiudaily.com/wii-u-system-specs/



lilbroex on 27 August 2012
Kynes said:
lilbroex said:

The components that make up a gaming console are generally custom built with the first real exception to that being the XBox, then the 360 and PS3. They pretty much "are" desktops only with a different aesthetic design. Their chips were pretty much straight replica of existing chips.

Nintendo has always used completely custom built chips made specifically for there machines. This is no exception. People often talk of what the Wii U is based on internally giving references to things like the Power7 and 4850 but those are only bases.

The CPU and GPU in the Wii U are built to fit its specifications. Size is not a problem, nor is power.

That's not true, at all. X360 Xenon and Xenos aren't replicas of existing chips. Tell me the ATI equivalent to Xenos. Cell is as much custom as a chip can be. The only one that can be considered derived of a desktop chip is RSX, and even that chip has differences as an 128 GDDR3 bus instead of 256 bits in the desktop part, with half ROPs due to this half width memory controller, and an integrated XDR memory controller.


The Cell is a PowerPC derived chip that was primarily made by IBM it wasn't so much custom built as it was an original design. It was primarily made for servers. It was not made soley for the PS3.

The Xenon was pretty much a copy and pasted X1800 with a few extra features and some fragments from directx10 added. It was more like a tricked out car than an original creation.

Nintendo's processors and GPU's had no derivitives. They were straight built from the ground up for Nintendo's console.



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HulkWasRight on 27 August 2012

It seems to me that Nintendo actually makes some pretty beefy hardware (anything besides the wii and handhelds) but no one takes advantage of it Nintendo included. This happened with the GC.



S.T.A.G.E. on 27 August 2012
phenom08 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
phenom08 said:
Baron said:

S.T.A.G.E. said:

Based on the amount of games offered the PS3 is at this moment the gamers console. The Xbox 360 may have the most popular games, but the fewest exclusives and a has the longest exclusive droughts for the past three years. The Wii U is coming out so we can excuse the Wii while it bows out. The casual market was had been used up and moved onto the next gimmick in the Kinect a year earlier and it hurt the Wii. The Wii had a good four years on top, but as all casual things, it never lasts.

More exclusives =/= best games library. The Wii has the most exclusives. Why don't you consider that console to be the gamers consoleBe

Because its Ninty, even better why dont Sony gamers even support Sony games?


PS3 exclusives are selling fairly well. The problem with them is that they aren't household names like Zelda and Mario.  GOW, Uncharted, LBP, GT5 sold very well though. Its been a very good gen for known titles and new IP's on the Sony platform. There are plenty of games that deserve to sell better for sure, but then again I've spoken to a lot of gamers (mostly 360 owners who live near me) and they don't even know the majority of PS3 exclusives exist when you have a conversation. After you bring them up to date they are like "WTF really?" This is truly showing how great Nintendo and Microsofts marketing has been and how dreadfully poor Sonys has been this gen. This really needs to change or else it will hurt Sony worse than they are already hurting.

Selling fairly well compared to what? They arent household names for a reason. They are highly overhyped games without the sells to even back their hype up. Good for new ips my ass, Wiisports was a new ip and sold extremely high. Wii fit did as well, Mario was a new ip back in the day and so was Pokemon, both did very well. Sony's new ips cant even crack 5 million yet you claim they did well. Here's the problem, you guys are so quick to compare Sony and Ninty but dont want to compare them commercially. You guys are quick to point out reviews which are opinions of a single person, but dont ever want to bring up sells. You guys blame marketing but have no proof of Sony providing poor marketing. I see commercials for the PS3 alot and yet their games still sell no where near as well. Where is this proof of poor marketing by the way or is it just another excuse.


PS3 exclusives are far from overhyped. If you pay attention you know just as well as any that Sonys achilles heel is their marketing. Xbox 360 exclusives are the most hyped as far as commercialization in the west. Be my guest if you can show me a game that has had more air time than Halo and Gears this gen. Super Mario sold extremely well because it and Duck Hunt were bundled with the original SNES and continued to be bundled with the consoles. Eventually it stuck and could sell regardless of bundles or not. I dont know if they did but when Uncharted launched I never saw special edition PS3's with Uncharted, InFamous 2, GOW or anything like it during the launch of these games. Usually its a little after when they get their initial sales. Sonys exclusives are quality, you don't have to like them, but they are KNOWN for making quality titles that are highly rated and endorse high amounts of creativity. The only place Sony has fallen behind is in multiplayer experience. if you want to compete against Xbox exclusives which majorly depend on online gameplay Sony's exclusives must do the same on par with them. The only company STILL continuing to make great core and indy exclusives into 2014 without stopping is Sony. You don't have to like them...just deal with the existence of those truths.



Crono141 on 27 August 2012


Done with 45 nm tech. Chips done with the same fabrication technology, with the same power envelope, can't be several times faster than other chips unless there is a big design flaw. We supposedly have here a WiiU console with a smaller power envelope than X360 and PS3, but several times faster... I'm sure that MS and Sony Engineers aren't retarded.


I must have missed the leak or confirmation that the WiiU's CPU and GPU are 45 nm dies.

http://wiiudaily.com/wii-u-system-specs/

There is no source link in that page.  Sounds like speculation to me.



Check out my Youtube Let's Play channel here.

Baron on 27 August 2012
Kynes said:
Take a look at the supposed size of the WiiU. You can't make a very powerful console with so low power requirement, I'm sure that Nintendo has done a good enough, very power optimized console (the EDRAM rumor hints to this) but it can't be several times more powerful than Xbox360 or PS3 with so tiny power profile.


We know nothing about the Wii U's power profile so I don't know why you bring that up? Size =/= power profile. Power profile is the total TDP of a console. Nintendo has always downsized their consoles along with a considerable step in power. Also, we've got 2 handhelds now that are easily capable of matching last gens hardware. The Vita is even almost as powerful as the 360 and PS3. The Wii U looks to offer a lot more room to hardware than the Vita.

As long as the casing offers sufficiënt cooling Nintendo can opt to put a GTX 680 and a i7 3960X in the Wii U. Off course that won't happen as it will make the console too expensive but size doesn't matter as much as you think



Kynes on 27 August 2012
lilbroex said:
Kynes said:
lilbroex said:

The components that make up a gaming console are generally custom built with the first real exception to that being the XBox, then the 360 and PS3. They pretty much "are" desktops only with a different aesthetic design. Their chips were pretty much straight replica of existing chips.

Nintendo has always used completely custom built chips made specifically for there machines. This is no exception. People often talk of what the Wii U is based on internally giving references to things like the Power7 and 4850 but those are only bases.

The CPU and GPU in the Wii U are built to fit its specifications. Size is not a problem, nor is power.

That's not true, at all. X360 Xenon and Xenos aren't replicas of existing chips. Tell me the ATI equivalent to Xenos. Cell is as much custom as a chip can be. The only one that can be considered derived of a desktop chip is RSX, and even that chip has differences as an 128 GDDR3 bus instead of 256 bits in the desktop part, with half ROPs due to this half width memory controller, and an integrated XDR memory controller.


The Cell is a PowerPC derived chip that was primarily made by IBM. The Xenon was pretty much a copy and pasted X1800 with a few extra features.

Xenos (xenon is the proccesor) Is derived from the canceled R400. The X1800 has 16 pixel shaders and 8 vertex shaders. Xenos has 16x3 SIMD unified shaders. They can't be more different.