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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Google should remove emulators

sethnintendo on 21 August 2012
spurgeonryan said:
I am sure that Google has a horde of Lawyers at their beckon call. They probably googled this thread and already made sure to take appropriate action against anyone who tries to sue them. They probably have mercenary swat team watching SethNintendo's house at this moment because of this thread.

Good job Seth, you are now in "The System". You did not shake a bumble bee nest, you shook a mongolian fire hornets nest.


It was probably a bad idea to make the thread but at least I found out a few things that I just had wrong assumptions about before.  The legal use wouldn't bother me one bit but I know most people that download these are playing illegal ROMs.  So now I gotta hear shit talk about how dedicated hand helds are dying by some bastard playing Mario games with his GBA emulator on his Android phone.



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superchunk on 21 August 2012

I use an emulator on my phone. I have lots of games, I also have a ton of VC purchases for all my favorites on my Wii. I have also bought all those same games originally new on NES/SNES/etc. I do not in any way feel bad about my phone emulator/roms. They are merely cheap copies that I can play at random times. With Wii U I'll continue to buy more VC stuff. Probably a lot from N64 and GC. Hopefully Nintendo will allow it all tied to one account and usable on n-devices like multiple 3DSs. So my kids can play those copies as well. Hell, I'd probably buy a 3DS to not have to use my phone.



Mnementh on 21 August 2012
BasilZero said:
Mnementh said:

If we talk about Open-Source, than it's allowed by the fact that it is Open-Source. As long as they follow the license provided with the emulator, it is OK.


Oh I see, well still sucks that people need to pay for that when you can easily get it for free...

Yep, but not all ways to rip off idiots are illegal.



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kain_kusanagi on 21 August 2012
BasilZero said:
Kasz216 said:
BasilZero said:
superchunk said:
Emulators are not illegal... only the roms and those emulators do not provide roms.


The existence of emulators arent illegal but dont you think the distribution of emulators and making money off of the distribution is?


It isn't.  That's why Sony lost when they sued the creators of Bleem!

Although the lawsuits were draining enough that said creators went out of buisness...

it more or less established that emulators are 100% legal.


No I didnt mean the existence of the emulators or the availability, but the fact that people are selling software which otherwise is actually free and available, isnt that against the rules or could be used to get it off the app store?

 

Sony sued bleem! for emulating the Playstation on the Dreamcast. They lost every lawsuit because emulation is perfectly legal so long as you own the original game. Backups are also 100% legal. You allowed to make backup copies of all software, videos, music, etc. for your own personal use. That means you can buy Final Fantasy III for the SNES, set it on a shelf, and legally play the ROM on any device you want.

Here's a vid all about Sony and bleem! for Dreamcast.

skip to lawsuit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDQRl2-QaiM&feature=player_detailpage#t=384s



sethnintendo on 21 August 2012
kain_kusanagi said:

 

Sony sued bleem! for emulating the Playstation on the Dreamcast. They lost every lawsuit because emulation is perfectly legal so long as you own the original game. Backups are also 100% legal. You allowed to make backup copies of all software, videos, music, etc. for your own personal use. That means you can buy Final Fantasy III for the SNES, set it on a shelf, and legally play the ROM on any device you want.

Here's a vid all about Sony and bleem! for Dreamcast.

skip to lawsuit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDQRl2-QaiM&feature=player_detailpage#t=384s

According to Nintendo's policy they state that you can't use a ROM as a back up.

"Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet."

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom



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kljesta64 on 21 August 2012

if they could sue they would



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kain_kusanagi on 21 August 2012
sethnintendo said:
kain_kusanagi said:

 

Sony sued bleem! for emulating the Playstation on the Dreamcast. They lost every lawsuit because emulation is perfectly legal so long as you own the original game. Backups are also 100% legal. You allowed to make backup copies of all software, videos, music, etc. for your own personal use. That means you can buy Final Fantasy III for the SNES, set it on a shelf, and legally play the ROM on any device you want.

Here's a vid all about Sony and bleem! for Dreamcast.

skip to lawsuit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDQRl2-QaiM&feature=player_detailpage#t=384s

According to Nintendo's policy they state that you can't use a ROM as a back up.

"Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet."

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom

That is Nintendo's own self serving opinion. It is not a opinion I shaw on copyright law and it has not been help up in court as far as I am aware.



darkknightkryta on 21 August 2012
sethnintendo said:
kain_kusanagi said:

 

Sony sued bleem! for emulating the Playstation on the Dreamcast. They lost every lawsuit because emulation is perfectly legal so long as you own the original game. Backups are also 100% legal. You allowed to make backup copies of all software, videos, music, etc. for your own personal use. That means you can buy Final Fantasy III for the SNES, set it on a shelf, and legally play the ROM on any device you want.

Here's a vid all about Sony and bleem! for Dreamcast.

skip to lawsuit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDQRl2-QaiM&feature=player_detailpage#t=384s

According to Nintendo's policy they state that you can't use a ROM as a back up.

"Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet."

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom

That can't hold up in court.  "You are entitled to a second copy", but even if you get a second copy, it's not a second copy according to Nintendo.  That in itself is a lie, as it's a second copy.  Notice the contradiction?  The only case they can make is if you don't make the copy yourself, but I'm not sure what the current copyrite laws state on whether you can "aquire" a backup copy or not.  Notice how they left that out and say that the law doesn't state whether you can download a backup copy or not therefore you're not entitled to your second copy.  Which again is a contradiction since you're allowed a backup copy.  Someone copy and paste copyrite laws to let me know if I'm talking out of my ass.



kain_kusanagi on 21 August 2012
darkknightkryta said:
sethnintendo said:
kain_kusanagi said:

 

Sony sued bleem! for emulating the Playstation on the Dreamcast. They lost every lawsuit because emulation is perfectly legal so long as you own the original game. Backups are also 100% legal. You allowed to make backup copies of all software, videos, music, etc. for your own personal use. That means you can buy Final Fantasy III for the SNES, set it on a shelf, and legally play the ROM on any device you want.

Here's a vid all about Sony and bleem! for Dreamcast.

skip to lawsuit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDQRl2-QaiM&feature=player_detailpage#t=384s

According to Nintendo's policy they state that you can't use a ROM as a back up.

"Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet."

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom

That can't hold up in court.  "You are entitled to a second copy", but even if you get a second copy, it's not a second copy according to Nintendo.  That in itself is a lie, as it's a second copy.  Notice the contradiction?  The only case they can make is if you don't make the copy yourself, but I'm not sure what the current copyrite laws state on whether you can "aquire" a backup copy or not.  Notice how they left that out and say that the law doesn't state whether you can download a backup copy or not therefore you're not entitled to your second copy.  Which again is a contradiction since you're allowed a backup copy.  Someone copy and paste copyrite laws to let me know if I'm talking out of my ass.

"Under section 117, you or someone you authorize may make a copy of an original computer program"

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html

"Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research."

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html



darkknightkryta on 21 August 2012
kain_kusanagi said:
darkknightkryta said:
sethnintendo said:
kain_kusanagi said:

 

Sony sued bleem! for emulating the Playstation on the Dreamcast. They lost every lawsuit because emulation is perfectly legal so long as you own the original game. Backups are also 100% legal. You allowed to make backup copies of all software, videos, music, etc. for your own personal use. That means you can buy Final Fantasy III for the SNES, set it on a shelf, and legally play the ROM on any device you want.

Here's a vid all about Sony and bleem! for Dreamcast.

skip to lawsuit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDQRl2-QaiM&feature=player_detailpage#t=384s

According to Nintendo's policy they state that you can't use a ROM as a back up.

"Can I Download a Nintendo ROM from the Internet if I Already Own the Authentic Game?

There is a good deal of misinformation on the Internet regarding the backup/archival copy exception. It is not a "second copy" rule and is often mistakenly cited for the proposition that if you have one lawful copy of a copyrighted work, you are entitled to have a second copy of the copyrighted work even if that second copy is an infringing copy. The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic. Therefore, whether you have an authentic game or not, or whether you have possession of a Nintendo ROM for a limited amount of time, i.e. 24 hours, it is illegal to download and play a Nintendo ROM from the Internet."

http://www.nintendo.com/corp/legal.jsp#download_rom

That can't hold up in court.  "You are entitled to a second copy", but even if you get a second copy, it's not a second copy according to Nintendo.  That in itself is a lie, as it's a second copy.  Notice the contradiction?  The only case they can make is if you don't make the copy yourself, but I'm not sure what the current copyrite laws state on whether you can "aquire" a backup copy or not.  Notice how they left that out and say that the law doesn't state whether you can download a backup copy or not therefore you're not entitled to your second copy.  Which again is a contradiction since you're allowed a backup copy.  Someone copy and paste copyrite laws to let me know if I'm talking out of my ass.

"Under section 117, you or someone you authorize may make a copy of an original computer program"

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-digital.html

"Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered fair, such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research."

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

Still ambiguous, and you may not be able to download a copy since you're not authorizing someone to do it for you since someone already did it.  I guess it'd be up to the judge, which Nintendo probably doesn't want so they're talking out of their asses to scare people.  Thanks for the info Kain!