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Forums - Politics Discussion - Missouri Republican: 'Legitimate rape' rarely causes pregnancy

happydolphin on 19 August 2012
Mr Khan said:
I was debating posting this one, but erred on the other side.

"Legitimate Rape" is a thing, sadly, and that makes this whole thing much more sordid when you analyze his language. "Legitimate Rape" means what we all think of when you hear "rape," which is a woman alone in a dark alley, suddenly jumped by thugs (that she doesn't know) who have their way with her, which is a very small percentage of all rape

"Illegitimate rape" is an inherently anti-feminist term, because that's the majority of rape, the kind of thing where you're with a girl and you think she's sending out signals but ultimately she doesn't want it, but you have sex with her anyway. That's the bulk of rape, and you can see with this terminology that this is considered by many to be "less" of a crime.

What this man is postulating is that the distress of a "stranger-assault" rape causes women to shut down their receptivity, which isn't how it works at all.

Someone so ignorant should be kept well away from public life period, let alone any position of responsibility.

You do realize there are miscarriages that happen when a woman is too sad? The psyche has a big effect on childbirth.

Of course it's not an "always' kind of thing, but his ignorant-type speech isn't so far off.

http://www.webmd.com/infertility-and-reproduction/news/20030605/how-stress-causes-miscarriage

"June 5, 2003 -- Stress has long been suspected as a possible cause ofmiscarriage, with several studies indicating an increased risk among women reporting high levels of emotional or physical turmoil in their early months of pregnancy or just before conception. But while a relationship has been noted, researchers didn't know exactly how a woman's stress could cause miscarriage."



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badgenome on 19 August 2012
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:

If only there was a way of measuring when they become self-conscious. In my opinion that's when abortion should not be acceptable anymore.

They've observed fetsues masturbating, right? I say that should be the point after which abortion is illegal.



blkfish92 on 19 August 2012

Wow didn't know legitimate rape was actually a term lol, this guy is pretty dumb I say.



           

SvennoJ on 19 August 2012
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
MrBubbles said:
"but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child.”

i agree with this position, in theory...but i really cant argue for it. the rape itself would be a great trauma for them to deal with, so i dont know how many women could deal with carrying the child even if its just going to be put up for adoption.


It's the way he is saying it. I would never refer to a fetus as a child, just like I wouldn't with a newly fertilized egg.

 

If only there was a way of measuring when they become self-conscious. In my opinion that's when abortion should not be acceptable anymore.

That would be at birth at the earliest.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=when-does-consciousness-arise
No conciousness without experience, the fetus spends most of his time in a dreamless sleep state.

However having 2 kids actual conciousness / self awareness comes much later.
I think they suck it out of you during the first few months that you spend in severe sleep deprivation mode, them little vampires :) I still can't think straight after the 2nd one!



Mr Khan on 19 August 2012
badgenome said:
Mr Khan said:
"Legitimate Rape" is a thing, sadly, and that makes this whole thing much more sordid when you analyze his language. "Legitimate Rape" means what we all think of when you hear "rape," which is a woman alone in a dark alley, suddenly jumped by thugs (that she doesn't know) who have their way with her, which is a very small percentage of all rape

"Illegitimate rape" is an inherently anti-feminist term, because that's the majority of rape, the kind of thing where you're with a girl and you think she's sending out signals but ultimately she doesn't want it, but you have sex with her anyway. That's the bulk of rape, and you can see with this terminology that this is considered by many to be "less" of a crime.

What this man is postulating is that the distress of a "stranger-assault" rape causes women to shut down their receptivity, which isn't how it works at all.

Unless he specified exactly what he meant you might be reading a bit too much into it, because there are a lot of bullshit definitions of rape. For instance, two people get totally trashed and have sex. The girl wakes up and regrets it. Boom, "rape". Why isn't she also a rapist if the man was drunk, too?

But a lot of people have a lot of weird opinions on rape, like when the Hollywood community rallied around Roman Polanski and Whoopi Goldberg (whose feminist credentials I'd normally never question) said something to the effect of it wasn't "rape rape". So who knows?

Regardless, this sounds like the definition of an unforced error and also like a biologically crackpot theory from the anti-abortion crowd (although I'm not a gynebiocologist or anything).

I wouldn't disagree that the other side of the coin is a little too unbalanced in the woman's favor as well (hell, in some countries, a man can't be "raped", as far as the law is concerned.) but it's clear that he is definitely running with a misogynistic view of things.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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wfz on 20 August 2012
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
MrBubbles said:
"but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child.”

i agree with this position, in theory...but i really cant argue for it. the rape itself would be a great trauma for them to deal with, so i dont know how many women could deal with carrying the child even if its just going to be put up for adoption.


It's the way he is saying it. I would never refer to a fetus as a child, just like I wouldn't with a newly fertilized egg.

 

If only there was a way of measuring when they become self-conscious. In my opinion that's when abortion should not be acceptable anymore.


I like the line of when the heart starts beating, personally.

 

Also, the day-after pill, which is still effective up to around 72 hours after sex, works wonders at stopping unwanted pregnancies (particularly in the cases of rape where the woman wasn't necessarily prepared). I don't know why this pill is never spoken of in debates, though. 



tra072011 on 20 August 2012

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Kasz216 on 20 August 2012
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
MrBubbles said:
"but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child.”

i agree with this position, in theory...but i really cant argue for it. the rape itself would be a great trauma for them to deal with, so i dont know how many women could deal with carrying the child even if its just going to be put up for adoption.


It's the way he is saying it. I would never refer to a fetus as a child, just like I wouldn't with a newly fertilized egg.

 

If only there was a way of measuring when they become self-conscious. In my opinion that's when abortion should not be acceptable anymore.

Define self consious.

If it's Brainwaves, it's about 4-6 weeks before our current cutoff rate.

actual awarness of self above that of an animal level?  That's not until like 2 years old.



TeddostheFireKing on 20 August 2012
wfz said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
MrBubbles said:
"but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child.”

i agree with this position, in theory...but i really cant argue for it. the rape itself would be a great trauma for them to deal with, so i dont know how many women could deal with carrying the child even if its just going to be put up for adoption.


It's the way he is saying it. I would never refer to a fetus as a child, just like I wouldn't with a newly fertilized egg.

 

If only there was a way of measuring when they become self-conscious. In my opinion that's when abortion should not be acceptable anymore.


I like the line of when the heart starts beating, personally.

 

Also, the day-after pill, which is still effective up to around 72 hours after sex, works wonders at stopping unwanted pregnancies (particularly in the cases of rape where the woman wasn't necessarily prepared). I don't know why this pill is never spoken of in debates, though. 


That would still abort the child and the Republican is clearly against abortion. And the morning after pill is only guaranteed to work for the first 24 hours after sex, after that is drops by a huge amount and even more the day after.

As is pointed out earlier in the thread, I doubt the Republican meant there was a form of Legitimate rape, but merely different levels of it (like the drunken night instance already mentioned). Since I'm not Catholic, I clearly favour abortion.



Helloplite on 20 August 2012
Kasz216 said:
IIIIITHE1IIIII said:
MrBubbles said:
"but the punishment ought to be on the rapist and not attacking the child.”

i agree with this position, in theory...but i really cant argue for it. the rape itself would be a great trauma for them to deal with, so i dont know how many women could deal with carrying the child even if its just going to be put up for adoption.


It's the way he is saying it. I would never refer to a fetus as a child, just like I wouldn't with a newly fertilized egg.

 

If only there was a way of measuring when they become self-conscious. In my opinion that's when abortion should not be acceptable anymore.

Define self consious.

If it's Brainwaves, it's about 4-6 weeks before our current cutoff rate.

actual awarness of self above that of an animal level?  That's not until like 2 years old.

Can you back your claim on this? It seems too much in my opinion.

I think that human awareness takes some time to be developed but it depends on the case -- some children attain it before the age of 1, and some right around it. I believe the 2 year mark is way after it has happened.