Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Does Mario need to be so kiddy?

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Xxain said:
I cant tell whats worse: Graphics or Story whores. I dont understand the need for the cosmetics. I didnt even know ppl played Mario for story.


Whats worse are people who think that just because someone like me favors story, music and good graphics it paints me out to that guy who has something wrong with him. 

 

Since when did everyone else become so high and mighty and believe that their preferences are end all be all for gaming?



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Euphoria14 said:
Xxain said:
I cant tell whats worse: Graphics or Story whores. I dont understand the need for the cosmetics. I didnt even know ppl played Mario for story.


Whats worse are people who think that just because someone like me favors story, music and good graphics it paints me out to that guy who has something wrong with him. 

 

Since when did everyone else become so high and mighty and believe that their preferences are end all be all for gaming?

In this field. It does come off as strange. I think that if I was enlightened on the importance of them I would be more understanding. LIke NSMBW is a fun entertaining game to play. Now if story was automatically injected into it..what would change? Same with graphics..what happens?



I dunno Im 25 and I dont think mario is for kids. Its for everyone. I mean Simpsons or Sponge bob is also not only for kinds it might look like it is but its not. People should stop thinking about that anything with color or anything cute is for kids.

What is with the Gremlins? Cute yes for kids hell no the will kill you.

And IMHO Mario does not really need a story since its a platformer its some sort of a puzzler like Tetris or something but with the difference that in Mario the levels are the puzzles and you solve them by reaching the levels end.

It just needs your skill no real story. Thats also why its seperate levels with no real connection to another level. Its simply a collection of platformer levels. The story is a nice thing and its okay the way it is.


When mario turns into a real advernture game then we can demand a real story. As long as thats not the case its okay the way it is

P.S.

the only thing about mario I dont like is that New Super Mario does not evolve at all i have the DS version and the Wii version became boring thats why I wont buy the 3ds version or WiiU version. Sure the 3ds version changed some stuff but for me this IP is dead and they need to convince me that im not going to buy the same game a third time. NSMB Is to much of the same and I also have enough of its music.. I want changes like SMB 1 2 and 3 every games was completely different in music design etc



wfz said:

Mario most definitely does not need to be kiddy. In fact, I would argue that the old 2D Mario games, as you stated, were completely not. These games were presented in such a way that left a lot of the storytelling up to the interpretation of the user (something Nintendo still does) AS WELL AS leaving the interpretation of much of the themes, character development, and other areas into the hands of the players. This really goes for the rest of old Nintendo as well. Everything was presented in a manner that all ages could enjoy without feeling the childish tones.

I believe part of the problem comes from the fact that as technology has advanced, developers can put more of THEIR OWN expression into the games. The more expression and themes that are thrown into a game, the less that is left up to the interpretation of the player. That's why people can enjoy and interpret the early Zelda and Mario games to their mind's happiness, but the new games have more detailed graphics, characters, and themes that are pushed in your face. Nintendo has to hit those themes just perfectly to appeal to the masses, or they have to design their games around a more interpretive way again.

I kind of felt they did that well with Majora's Mask. That game had such immense depth and so many ways to see the game depending on how deep you wanted to dive into it. I also feel like Super Mario 64 did this beautifully as well. My hardcore BAMF uncle who loved to drink, smoke, and surf loved playing SM64, and I as a 7 year old also loved playing it. It was fun and accessible in a manner that didn't push and force strong elements that felt age or demographic restrictive.

 

(Yes, most of this was copy/pasted from my wall post).

I also feel like something is forced nowadays. I don't feel the same freedom I had when I used to play Mario, I'm forced to swallow a kid pill everytime I play. I never have to swallow that pill when I watch Disney movies, or play great NES games.

I love this post.



Mnementh said:
BasilZero said:
Nintendo was never strong when it came to the storyline development of their games
 

Pandora's Tower, Disaster: Day of Crisis, Kid Icarus: Uprising, Fire Emblem, Metroid Prime? They are not weak in storyline-development, they didn't focused on it for Mario.

Pandora's Tower = Second Party?/Gabrion or w/e its called
Day of Crisis = Second Party?/MonolithSoft
Kid Icarus = Ok
Fire Emblem = mentioned before
Metroid Prime = I've mentioned it before this is one of the series they need to focus on.

^ You also forgot to include some of the other titles that I mentioned as well such as Golden Sun in a later post.

What else? What about the other bigger named franchises? Mario? Donkey Kong? Legend of Zelda?


I know those titles have storylines, but do they have a deeper storyline like the ones mentioned above? Nope they dont, that isnt how why they sold either, its because of their gameplay mechanics and styles that they sold. People remember the gameplay aspects of Nintendo's games not for the storylines.

When I said weak storylines earlier , I was mostly referring to the bigger known franchises specificially Mario since that is what the OP is talking about. Mario's storylines (the mainline series) did not mostly grow from its storylines but its gameplay elements.

^ Sorry if my post seems like its jumbled up, just had a nap and feel groggy ;p



    

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JWeinCom said:
First off, what exactly is it that makes Mario kiddy? You didn't exactly define that in your post. You mention story, but story has changed very little in any Mario games.

Donkey Kong- Giant Gorilla has captured Pauline. Go save her.
Super Mario Bros.- Giant reptile has kidnapped Peach. Go save her.
Super Mario 64- Giant reptile has kidnapped Peach. Go Save her.
Super Mario Galaxy- Giant reptile has kidnapped Peach. Go save her.
NSMB Wii- Giant Reptile has captured Peach. Go save her.
Super Mario 3D Land- Giant Reptile has captured Peach. Go save her.

Of course, other Mario games have offered more story. In particular, the Mario RPG series has constantly offered very adult humor. Not adult in the sense of "I once knew a man from Nantucket", but adult in the sense of knowing in-jokes, self referential humor, and subtle jokes that would go over a child's head. Even Mario Galaxy had a somewhat somber story to it, if you spent the time in the library.

But as for the main story, it's changed very little. To be honest, the only change is in the subjective way which you described them. You say that Mario Bros "is the story of a plummer that needs to attack crabs and turtles and butterflies, with fireballs coming out of the wall to attack him." Well, Super Mario Sunshine is a story of a plumber crushing small animals underfoot, blasting enemies into walls with powerful streams of water, and RIPPING THE LIMBS OFF OF Squids who stand in his way. He does all of this in an effort to clear his name which has been besmirched by a shadowy imposter as part of a misguided quest to find his long lost mother.

You also mentioned color, but that seems unfair considering the differences in hardware. Naturally, the NES/Arcade systems of the time were limited in the amount of colors that could be easily replicated. Besides, I'm not sure what makes a color kiddy or not kiddy. Are bright primary colors only for children? Super Mario 64 has a whole level based on Rainbows and sunshine and is filled with color. I don't know what makes other games more kiddy in terms of their color palette.

As for why the mainline Mario series isn't a story with "real emotion" it's because that isn't what Nintendo wants it to be. Simple as that. Miyamoto in particular thrives on making games which are simple, accessible, and have great pick up and play value. Personally, this is what I'm looking for in a Mario game. Whether that's better or worse is subjective, but that's what Nintendo wants the mainline Mario series to be, and that's what it is. If you're looking for something different, you're probably looking to the wrong franchise.


Italics made me laugh :D

Okay, let me get more specific. Have you ever played Shadow of the Colossus?

There's a game with very little story, yet for some reason it had a GREAT untold story. There is so much you are thinking must have happened in that realm, yet little of the story is told. And like Mario, it doesn't need a story because you're going from Colossus to Colossus. However, like Sal gave in his example, in Journey (which I have yet to play), there is a great untold story, told with the dynamics of the characters, with the environmental objects and worlds you cross, told by the swaying music. It doesn't even need a story that the game conveys an emotion. (@Xxain, read that it'll answer your story whore question).

The last paragraph is one that troubles me the most and I'll tell you why. Mario is a character that represents the company as a whole. It's the icon of the company, and close enough to being the icon of the industry. Should a character with such a great reflection convey vaccuity? Or should he convey emotion? I believe emotion.

When Super Mario offers themes that are limited to children, it alienates the folks who are older who would also like to enjoy it. As such, many in this thread say it is the example of a game that is not age restrictive, but it is the exact opposite, it restricts to kids. On the flipside, nothing in Disney movies makes me, as an adult, and as a child in the past, want to shut it off. Rather, I want to stay and watch it.

That's the all-encompassing quality a Mario game should have, as the icon of Nintendo. Anything else would be selling it short, to make a pun. ;)



happydolphin said:

The last paragraph is one that troubles me the most and I'll tell you why. Mario is a character that represents the company as a whole. It's the icon of the company, and close enough to being the icon of the industry. Should a character with such a great reflection convey vaccuity? Or should he convey emotion? I believe emotion.

When Super Mario offers themes that are limited to children, it alienates the folks who are older who would also like to enjoy it. As such, many in this thread say it is the example of a game that is not age restrictive, but it is the exact opposite, it restricts to kids. On the flipside, nothing in Disney movies makes me, as an adult, and as a child in the past, want to shut it off. Rather, I want to stay and watch it.

That's the all-encompassing quality a Mario game should have, as the icon of Nintendo. Anything else would be selling it short, to make a pun. ;)

To be honest, I think Mario has grown/evolved enough that it doesnt matter how old you are, like your example with Disney, I think more people see Mario as iconic as a Disney character/movie.

Dont forget the fact that Mario has grown beyond the Platformer genre as well (i.e. RPG, Racing, Sports, etc).

I think by that fact alone Mario is...well bigger than life (imo).

Edit: Though it would be nice to see some emotion, but I think the part of the reason why they dont show much is well because he is silent o.o.?

Edit: I'm pretty sure if someone mentions mario anywhere in the world, they'll know who people are talking about, if you mention Fire Emblem, Golden Sun or some other Nintendo title (other than pokemon, Donkey Kong or Zelda) they'll probably scratch their heads.



    

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Xxain said:
Euphoria14 said:
Xxain said:
I cant tell whats worse: Graphics or Story whores. I dont understand the need for the cosmetics. I didnt even know ppl played Mario for story.


Whats worse are people who think that just because someone like me favors story, music and good graphics it paints me out to that guy who has something wrong with him. 

 

Since when did everyone else become so high and mighty and believe that their preferences are end all be all for gaming?

In this field. It does come off as strange. I think that if I was enlightened on the importance of them I would be more understanding. LIke NSMBW is a fun entertaining game to play. Now if story was automatically injected into it..what would change? Same with graphics..what happens?


I was commenting mainly because your comment came across to me as if to say you thought gaming for storylines and nice graphics is inherently wrong. If I misunderstood you then I apologize.

As for the storylines, don't they have the Paper Mario games? Don't care for them much though, I want a game that plays more like SMRPG. Story, graphics, good music, it was awesome. Instantly sold on a WiiU if the showed that. All it would need is remote play.



iPhone = Great gaming device. Don't agree? Who cares, because you're wrong.

Currently playing:

Final Fantasy VI (iOS), Final Fantasy: Record Keeper (iOS) & Dragon Quest V (iOS)     

    

Got a retro room? Post it here!

Euphoria14 said:
Xxain said:

In this field. It does come off as strange. I think that if I was enlightened on the importance of them I would be more understanding. LIke NSMBW is a fun entertaining game to play. Now if story was automatically injected into it..what would change? Same with graphics..what happens?


I was commenting mainly because your comment came across to me as if to say you thought gaming for storylines and nice graphics is inherently wrong. If I misunderstood you then I apologize.

As for the storylines, don't they have the Paper Mario games? Don't care for them much though, I want a game that plays more like SMRPG. Story, graphics, good music, it was awesome. Instantly sold on a WiiU if the showed that. All it would need is remote play.

Paper Mario series is ok , not as refined as SMRPG imo but that is probably because I'm more of a old school RPG player.

Also what do you mean by remote play...?



    

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BasilZero said:
happydolphin said:

The last paragraph is one that troubles me the most and I'll tell you why. Mario is a character that represents the company as a whole. It's the icon of the company, and close enough to being the icon of the industry. Should a character with such a great reflection convey vaccuity? Or should he convey emotion? I believe emotion.

When Super Mario offers themes that are limited to children, it alienates the folks who are older who would also like to enjoy it. As such, many in this thread say it is the example of a game that is not age restrictive, but it is the exact opposite, it restricts to kids. On the flipside, nothing in Disney movies makes me, as an adult, and as a child in the past, want to shut it off. Rather, I want to stay and watch it.

That's the all-encompassing quality a Mario game should have, as the icon of Nintendo. Anything else would be selling it short, to make a pun. ;)

To be honest, I think Mario has grown/evolved enough that it doesnt matter how old you are, like your example with Disney, I think more people see Mario as iconic as a Disney character/movie.

Dont forget the fact that Mario has grown beyond the Platformer genre as well (i.e. RPG, Racing, Sports, etc).

I think by that fact alone Mario is...well bigger than life (imo).

Edit: Though it would be nice to see some emotion, but I think the part of the reason why they dont show much is well because he is silent o.o.?

Edit: I'm pretty sure if someone mentions mario anywhere in the world, they'll know who people are talking about, if you mention Fire Emblem, Golden Sun or some other Nintendo title (other than pokemon, Donkey Kong or Zelda) they'll probably scratch their heads.

Nope, Twilight Princess, Super Metroid and Shadow of the Colossus mostly disagree.

If Mario was larger than life, people life Euphoria would still be playing. Something alienated him like it alienated me. Something's missing.