Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Does Mario need to be so kiddy?

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osed125 said:

Mario games don't need a story IMO (except the RPGs of course), but with the popularity of the newer Mario games Nintendo is afraid of changing the formula, so I don't think we'll see big changes in the New Super Mario series anytime soon

What about the struggling sales (relatively of course) of NSMB2? Could that trigger an alarm?



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mysticwolf said:
Mario isn't kiddy! He just has some personal issues with cute and cuddly creatures, and he takes out his anger by bouncing on them.

I love the guy, but come on.



BasilZero said:
Nintendo was never strong when it came to the storyline development of their games

Would love for you to play Fire Emblem and then say that with a straight face.

Super Mario RPG had a lite story, btw.  Not the best example.



I don't think Mario games are kiddy at all. They are well crafted games and can be downright devilish in difficulty for more experienced gamers.

I wonder what those who say it's too childish want. I'm curious. Is it blood, gore, and M-rating, for Mario? How many less copies would Nintendo sell of an M-rated Mario!  A story in Mario is inconsquential, it's all about the gameplay.  Not deep narratives.  Perhaps folks want M-rated Mario with codec-sequences between warp pipes and long CG cutscenes, I don't know.

 

Mario is for EVERYONE.



Kenology said:
BasilZero said:
Nintendo was never strong when it came to the storyline development of their games

Would love for you to play Fire Emblem and then say that with a straight face.

Super Mario RPG had a lite story, btw.  Not the best example.

I was talking about in general and especially to their bigger named Franchises such as Mario (the mainline series) compared to other story driven series made by other developers such as Final Fantasy from Square.

Fire Emblem is just one example btw, I can also mention Golden Sun, some of the Zelda games, some of the Star Fox games (adventure mostly), etc.

 

Super Mario RPG having a light story didnt matter, because it was a RPG, it was the main point of the game, for RPGs usually the Storyline is more driven than the gameplay which SMRPG is a perfect example imo especially when you compare it to other Mario games.



    

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happydolphin said:
osed125 said:

Mario games don't need a story IMO (except the RPGs of course), but with the popularity of the newer Mario games Nintendo is afraid of changing the formula, so I don't think we'll see big changes in the New Super Mario series anytime soon

What about the struggling sales (relatively of course) of NSMB2? Could that trigger an alarm?

My guess it's that it depends on Nintendo's level of success of the game, if they hope New Super Mario Bros. 2 sells the same as the DS and Wii ones (which I highly doubt it will), then I guess they will try to change the formula or not release a New Super Mario Bros game for a while. If on the other hand the overall sells of the game are acceptable for them then Nintendo will continue with the series only adding some few changes here and there.



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happydolphin said:
mysticwolf said:
Mario isn't kiddy! He just has some personal issues with cute and cuddly creatures, and he takes out his anger by bouncing on them.

I love the guy, but come on.

Thanks! I very much enjoyed that video. I would have flipped out if I went to my friend's house and the guy that voiced mario was there and started talking in his Mario voice.



 Been away for a bit, but sneaking back in.

Gaming on: PS4, PC, 3DS. Got a Switch! Mainly to play Smash

No. But I'm conflicted. Story can definitely be properly integrated into platformer/adventure games...themes can be introduced, and stories told. But personally, Mario's universe as it is now is a difficult place for those because he's so synonymous with a particular type of game that I can't dissasociate his character with them. I mean...internal conflicts or external relationships...personal journeys or world changing revelations...none of them fit. I think a traditional, dialogue and characterisation-heavy approach is off the cards. To do this, they'd have to fundamentally change the Mario series, to the point where there's no use in it being a mario game in the first place. 

However! They can take a minimal approach, and still say something in the game that is meaningful, and that I think is a worthwhile thing to attempt in a Mario game. Two of my favourite examples would be the environmental-storytelling in Demon's/Dark Souls and the gameplay narrative in Journey. The Souls games' narrative and context are gleaned almost completely from the world around you - the sounds creatures or characters make in the distance, the decrepit or fantastic buildings and magic, the enemies themselves patrolling an area or cowering in a dark chamber, the changing reaction of NPCs towards you, their faces, even item names..all non-intrusive story telling, that are possible in the confines of mario's universe. Now with Journey, the emotions you feel are completely tied to the person playing with you. The beautiful/symbolic environments and sound help but...without the other player travelling with you, the Journey ceases to be so affecting. Such simple things... having to huddle together to keep energy up through a storm....using eahcother's chirps as a means to fly higher...it adds meaning to the game without any text or explicit character development. I would never quit that game early, because I'd feel guilty for the 'journey-er' that I suddenly left alone. Playing on my own, I would. I honestly don't know how they'd incorporate that one into Mario though, althougn co-op does fit naturally into the series, it's the interaction that is important here. I wouldn't want to be the one at Nintendo HQ tasked with making that game. 

So it can be done, and should...but non-intrusively. I think. But it would be very difficult and require a delicate touch. 



wfz said:

Mario most definitely does not need to be kiddy. In fact, I would argue that the old 2D Mario games, as you stated, were completely not. These games were presented in such a way that left a lot of the storytelling up to the interpretation of the user (something Nintendo still does) AS WELL AS leaving the interpretation of much of the themes, character development, and other areas into the hands of the players. This really goes for the rest of old Nintendo as well. Everything was presented in a manner that all ages could enjoy without feeling the childish tones.

I believe part of the problem comes from the fact that as technology has advanced, developers can put more of THEIR OWN expression into the games. The more expression and themes that are thrown into a game, the less that is left up to the interpretation of the player. That's why people can enjoy and interpret the early Zelda and Mario games to their mind's happiness, but the new games have more detailed graphics, characters, and themes that are pushed in your face. Nintendo has to hit those themes just perfectly to appeal to the masses, or they have to design their games around a more interpretive way again.

I kind of felt they did that well with Majora's Mask. That game had such immense depth and so many ways to see the game depending on how deep you wanted to dive into it. I also feel like Super Mario 64 did this beautifully as well. My hardcore BAMF uncle who loved to drink, smoke, and surf loved playing SM64, and I as a 7 year old also loved playing it. It was fun and accessible in a manner that didn't push and force strong elements that felt age or demographic restrictive.

 

(Yes, most of this was copy/pasted from my wall post).


I agree.100%.That´s a great post.

Anyway...old Nintendo >>> today´s Nintendo...imo.



I don't think The Thousand Year Door has exactly a kiddy story...



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