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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Based on tech specs and not opinion, is the 3ds stronger than the Wii?

 

Is the 3ds stronger than the Wii (based on tech specs)?

Yes 148 47.74%
 
No 105 33.87%
 
What a stupid question, dumbass. 54 17.42%
 
Total:307

The 3DS has "modern shaders" not better ones. The one in the Wii is better because it can produce the same effects that you see on the PS3 and 360 like HDR and Parallax Mapping. The 3DS cannot. The ones in the Wii simply more difficult, more time consuming and more expensive to program so most developers simply don't even use them.

Did everyone just skip over the videos I posted for comparison on the first page? I guess everyone prefers to argue with the bullshot comparisons instead, since it doesn't actually take effort. There is a huge gap between opinion and fact.

Which one you like more and which games you think look better are opinion. What is actually done and what the systems are capable of is fact. This will not change.

 


curl-6,  Yes indeed.

 



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lilbroex said:

The 3DS has "modern shaders" not better ones. The one in the Wii is better because it can produce the same effects that you see on the PS3 and 360 like HDR and Parallax Mapping. The 3DS cannot.


Actually, the 3DS is indeed capable of both HDR and normal mapping which both are found in RE:R.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

Viper1 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS has "modern shaders" not better ones. The one in the Wii is better because it can produce the same effects that you see on the PS3 and 360 like HDR and Parallax Mapping. The 3DS cannot.


Actually, the 3DS is indeed capable of both HDR and normal mapping which both are found in RE:R

1. I never said normal mapping. The Gamecube could and did use normal mapping. Its not a high level effect. I said parralax mapping which requires much more horsepower and technical capability. http://graphics.cs.brown.edu/games/SteepParallax/compare.jpg

2. Show me where HDR was used in Revelation because I'm pretty sure the 3DS uses shader modal 1 which cannot produce that effect. Bloom and HDR are no where near the same thing.

Also for the record. On a technical level, revelations really isn't doing as much as RE4 which a lot of people don't seem to notice. The number of enemies allowed onscreen at once and the AI complexity is far lower and there are less destructable enemies and objects. The game is pretty much just a some slightly detailed, small sections with normal mapping slathered over everything and AA turned up to max.


If you actually analyze Leon's polygon modal from RE4 and claire's from Revelation up close and side by side, you will notice a huge difference in the character detail. Most of the features on the Revelaiton characters are just drawn on and there are really blocky when you look at them up close. Its not as bad as in Mercenaries but its noticable. 

 

 

The normal mapping makes the Revelations characters look far more detailed than they actually are. If you look close you will notice that most of the Revelations character detail is drawn on and flat with no little detail. The  RE4 characters use actual polygons and more complex/detailed textures. Look at the elbow areas on both of them, the jaw/chin detail, eyes and eyebrows.


Leon's RE4 character uses around the same polygon count as the characters in gears of war on the 360. His modal uses even more than theirs combined with the gun. The poly count on the gears guns is around 4-5k. Leon's pistol uses 10.2 k alone.

 

Then there are still the videos I posted on the first page which shows the same game designs running side by side on the Wii and 3DS. There is a big difference in detail.



I don't know, but I think it's close.

And does it matter? The games look great regardless. Just look at Resi Revelations and you'll see what I mean.



 

Here lies the dearly departed Nintendomination Thread.

lilbroex said:
Viper1 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS has "modern shaders" not better ones. The one in the Wii is better because it can produce the same effects that you see on the PS3 and 360 like HDR and Parallax Mapping. The 3DS cannot.


Actually, the 3DS is indeed capable of both HDR and normal mapping which both are found in RE:R

1. I never said normal mapping. The Gamecube could and did use normal mapping. Its not a high level effect. I said parralax mapping which requires much more horsepower and technical capability. http://graphics.cs.brown.edu/games/SteepParallax/compare.jpg

2. Show me where HDR was used in Revelation because I'm pretty sure the 3DS uses shader modal 1 which cannot produce that effect. Bloom and HDR are no where near the same thing.

Also for the record. On a technical level, revelations really isn't doing as much as RE4 which a lot of people don't seem to notice. The number of enemies allowed onscreen at once and the AI complexity is far lower and there are less destructable enemies and objects. The game is pretty much just a some slightly detailed, small sections with normal mapping slathered over everything and AA turned up to max.


If you actually analyze Leon's polygon modal from RE4 and claire's from Revelation up close and side by side, you will notice a huge difference in the character detail. Most of the features on the Revelaiton characters are just drawn on and there are really blocky when you look at them up close. Its not as bad as in Mercenaries but its noticable.  The normal mapping makes it look far more detailed than it actually is.

Do keep in mind I am one of those that agrees that the Wii is more powerful than the 3DS.

Source for RE:R utilizing HDR.
http://andriasang.com/comp7w/3ds_mt_framework_detailed/

Also, the DMP PICA2000 GPU with the OpenGL ES 1.1 extensions can replicate DX9 and some DX10.1 level shaders.

As or parallax mapping or virtual displacement mapping, they don't even do that very well on the HD consoles....let alone Wii or 3DS.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

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Viper1 said:
lilbroex said:
Viper1 said:
lilbroex said:

The 3DS has "modern shaders" not better ones. The one in the Wii is better because it can produce the same effects that you see on the PS3 and 360 like HDR and Parallax Mapping. The 3DS cannot.


Actually, the 3DS is indeed capable of both HDR and normal mapping which both are found in RE:R

1. I never said normal mapping. The Gamecube could and did use normal mapping. Its not a high level effect. I said parralax mapping which requires much more horsepower and technical capability. http://graphics.cs.brown.edu/games/SteepParallax/compare.jpg

2. Show me where HDR was used in Revelation because I'm pretty sure the 3DS uses shader modal 1 which cannot produce that effect. Bloom and HDR are no where near the same thing.

Also for the record. On a technical level, revelations really isn't doing as much as RE4 which a lot of people don't seem to notice. The number of enemies allowed onscreen at once and the AI complexity is far lower and there are less destructable enemies and objects. The game is pretty much just a some slightly detailed, small sections with normal mapping slathered over everything and AA turned up to max.


If you actually analyze Leon's polygon modal from RE4 and claire's from Revelation up close and side by side, you will notice a huge difference in the character detail. Most of the features on the Revelaiton characters are just drawn on and there are really blocky when you look at them up close. Its not as bad as in Mercenaries but its noticable.  The normal mapping makes it look far more detailed than it actually is.

Do keep in mind I am one of those that agrees that the Wii is more powerful than the 3DS.

Source for RE:R utilizing HDR.
http://andriasang.com/comp7w/3ds_mt_framework_detailed/

Also, the DMP PICA2000 GPU with the OpenGL ES 1.1 extensions can replicate DX9 and some DX10.1 level shaders.

As or parallax mapping or virtual displacement mapping, they don't even do that very well on the HD consoles....let alone Wii or 3DS.

I see, I wasn't aware that it used open gl. I still remember it from the early design days where it ws pretty much micro xbox gpu.


The Wii used parallax mapping on the boulders in the Mario Galaxys.

As I expained, the Wii uses a different type of shader called a TEV which is more akin to programming in assembly language as opposed to a standard shader modal which is akin to programming in C. You can do far more while using less system resources with assembly level programming but it is extrememly complex and time consuming as "everything" must be done manually. Using the Wii's TEV you can produce the same effects as on modern shaders at a fraction of the system resource cost.

 

 

 

Take a good close look at those character modals and the level detail.



The bump mapping in the Mario Galaxy titles are still normal maps, not parallax.

And it's pretty disingenuous to use poor screen shot blown up well beyond their resolution for the 3DS screens while the Wii screen is scaled down. That may not have been intentional on your part but you can't compare separate resolutions with similar sized images. Get something at native resolution and with a quality screen capture.



The rEVOLution is not being televised

The 3DS doesn't have "modern shaders" whatever that means. It has a weird GPU that supports programmable vertex shaders but not fragment shaders. Instead it has a fixed number of the more popular effects built-in where you can only change some of the parameters but not the effect itself. They apparently went this way because a programmable fragment shader would consume too much battery.

There's so much misinformation in this thread I don't even know where to begin, so I'll just stop here.



Viper1 said:
The bump mapping in the Mario Galaxy titles are still normal maps, not parallax.

And it's pretty disingenuous to use poor screen shot blown up well beyond their resolution for the 3DS screens while the Wii screen is scaled down. That may not have been intentional on your part but you can't compare separate resolutions with similar sized images. Get something at native resolution and with a quality screen capture.


You altered the scale and the specifics of what I talked about which means that you have no intention of having a real discussion about it. I said "boulders" in Mario Galaxy not Mario Galaxy itself.  The Wii screen shot is at its natural size. I posted many pictures and videos, but you ignore all of them focus only on that one thing. If you don't like tha tone then to go the other ones.

I'm not comparing resoutions. I'm compariing texture detail, polygon detail, effects and shaders.

If you won't a descript comparison then go back to the first page and look at the videos.

Show me a character modal this detailed and clean on the 3DS. http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/152/58780_20090602_screen006.jpg

 



lilbroex said:
Viper1 said:
The bump mapping in the Mario Galaxy titles are still normal maps, not parallax.

And it's pretty disingenuous to use poor screen shot blown up well beyond their resolution for the 3DS screens while the Wii screen is scaled down. That may not have been intentional on your part but you can't compare separate resolutions with similar sized images. Get something at native resolution and with a quality screen capture.


You altered the scale and the specifics of what I talked about which means that you have no intention of having a real discussion about it. I said "boulders" in Mario Galaxy not Mario Galaxy itself.  The Wii screen shot is at its natural size. I posted many pictures and videos, but you ignore all of them focus only on that one thing. If you don't like tha tone then to go the other ones.

I'm not comparing resoutions. I'm compariing texture detail, polygon detail, effects and shaders.

If you won't a descript comparison then go back to the first page and look at the videos.

Show me a character modal this detailed and clean on the 3DS. http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/152/58780_20090602_screen006.jpg

 

Are the boulders you reference in Mario Galaxy?  Then when I say Mario Galaxy does not utilize parallax mapping, that includes the boulders. 

The resolution factor is valid and no, your Wii image is not Wii reoslution at all.   It's lower.    Check your image properties.


I'll be back on later to tear down your posts even further.



The rEVOLution is not being televised