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Forums - Microsoft - Explain to me how PS3 and Wii had better E3 than 360

Booh! on 22 June 2011
Michael-5 said:

1. Ryse of course will be more accurate then The Fight: Lights Out. The technology in motion gaming grows rapidly, last E3 they said finger commands would be impossible on Kinect, now Ryse has finger tracking. Ryse is levels beyond The Fight: Lights Out, it's become the flagship core Kinect title, and it's made by Crytek. Dude The Fight" Lights Out was a 3/10 Move title, with terrible controls and game depth. This is not a good comparision. Ryse could very well get scores of 8/10, just like Dance Central did. Not all controller free games are a joke, like you want to believe. Have you ever even played Dance Central?


You're an optimistic guy for sure. Besides the fact that The Fight is a 5/10 game, I'm really really really skeptical about kinect being more responsive than the sony move. The focus of the sony move is just to reliably  track the move (that is your punch in a fighting game), while the focus of kinect is to adequately track your whole body. Moreover mr. optimism himself, Peter Molineux, said in a recent interview that he "admits that Kinect has got some problems. As an input device it has some real problems". He dared to show with a straight face that big hoax that was milo, I can barely imagine how good the new fable will be.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 22 June 2011
Michael-5 said:
mibuokami said:
Michael-5 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
selnor said:
The thread is rediculous because we are on vgsony. I mean vgchart
Anything against Sony is met in force by 80% of the sites users.


The consensus all around is that Microsoft lost E3. They marketed it to the core and most sites and people rated it Nintendo> Sony> Microsoft or Sony> Nintendo> Microsoft. It's not just this site. If we're talking about the general audience of people who dont really game and would game casually then Nintendo>Microsoft>Sony. It's that simple.

Consumers all around said Microsoft had a worse E3 press conference then Sony and Nintendo, but you're bending the truth to make the PS3 look better then it is.

Nowhere online does it say the PS3 and Wii portion of Sony's and Nintendo's Press conferences were better then MS's press conference (remember Sony and Nintendo have 4 consoles to talk about, MS only has the 360). In fact when you watch Bonus Round, or any other major websites, people say the Wii portion of Nintendo's press conference was just an all out dissapointment, and most people say 360 > PS3. Just look at this thread too, you are one of the few people arguing PS3 > 360.

So in conclusion Sony/Nintendo >> Microsoft, but 360>PS3>>>Wii

I don't get this....

Let's review the title: Explain to me how PS3 and Wii had better E3 than 360

Now this statement: Nowhere online does it say the PS3 and Wii portion of Sony's and Nintendo's Press conferences were better then MS's press conference

Sooo.... you want people to explain how the PS3 / Wii had a better conference than the 360, then claim no one is actually making a statement indicating that PS3 / Wii had a better conference than the 360.

Who are you trying to refute then?

Who are these people specifically singling out 360, PS3 and Wii performance and claiming that the 360 had worst showing?

Lots of PS3 fans on this site, so OP may be in regards to forum comments, but I don't read anywhere, who honestly thought Wii was better then PS3 or 360.

Also I didn't make the thread, so ask thx1139 these questions.

I claim large scale professional websites and the journalists among them never said PS3 had a better press conference then 360.

STAGE watches Bonus Round, so I was just pointing out in Bonus Round itself they said the same thing. 360 debatably had a better press conference then Sony themselves. If you really hate Kinect and Halo, then I can see why someone like STAGE would prefer PS3, but he shouldn't just crop out all the core Kinect titles and limit the 360 core lineup to a couple games this fall and Halo, and then crop out Halo 4 since it's released in fall 2012 (like Starhawk and other PS3 games).

Bonus Round Scores for E3:

Microsoft: Jeff: C  Andy: C- Nguy: B+     

Sony: Nguy: A- (because of new hardware), Andy: C (Thought Sony and Microsoft would've tied had it not been for kinect also more interesting games and the successful pricing of the PSVita on Sonys part), C+

Nintendo: Nguy: A Andy: B Jeff: B

 

They never said anything about 360 having a better conference. They said it was too kinect heavy, especially to the market they were showing off games to at E3. Don't get me started on the Invisible Walls show. Lets just say some 360 fans were pissed off at some words that were said during E3 about Microsofts conference. They knew full well Microsoft wasnt focused on the core.



S.T.A.G.E. on 22 June 2011
mibuokami said:
Michael-5 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
selnor said:
The thread is rediculous because we are on vgsony. I mean vgchart
Anything against Sony is met in force by 80% of the sites users.


The consensus all around is that Microsoft lost E3. They marketed it to the core and most sites and people rated it Nintendo> Sony> Microsoft or Sony> Nintendo> Microsoft. It's not just this site. If we're talking about the general audience of people who dont really game and would game casually then Nintendo>Microsoft>Sony. It's that simple.

Consumers all around said Microsoft had a worse E3 press conference then Sony and Nintendo, but you're bending the truth to make the PS3 look better then it is.

Nowhere online does it say the PS3 and Wii portion of Sony's and Nintendo's Press conferences were better then MS's press conference (remember Sony and Nintendo have 4 consoles to talk about, MS only has the 360). In fact when you watch Bonus Round, or any other major websites, people say the Wii portion of Nintendo's press conference was just an all out dissapointment, and most people say 360 > PS3. Just look at this thread too, you are one of the few people arguing PS3 > 360.

So in conclusion Sony/Nintendo >> Microsoft, but 360>PS3>>>Wii

I don't get this....

Let's review the title: Explain to me how PS3 and Wii had better E3 than 360

Now this statement: Nowhere online does it say the PS3 and Wii portion of Sony's and Nintendo's Press conferences were better then MS's press conference

Sooo.... you want people to explain how the PS3 / Wii had a better conference than the 360, then claim no one is actually making a statement indicating that PS3 / Wii had a better conference than the 360.

Who are you trying to refute then?

Who are these people specifically singling out 360, PS3 and Wii performance and claiming that the 360 had worst showing?


Exactly.



S.T.A.G.E. on 22 June 2011
Michael-5 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Michael-5 said:

Ryse is not core? I bet you it will be much harder for someone like you or me to pick up and learn the controls. This is just insane, then how is Sly core, but Ryse not? Think about it, M rated game built where you can gouge someones eyes out, or cell-shaded platformer?

I watch all Bonus rounds, what you say is your interpretation. They never say MS has given up on the non-kinect user base, they just say that that userbase is getting a lot smaller now, at least on the 360.

I'm sorry, but your definition of a "core" title removes a lot of core games like Super Mario Galaxy, Donkey Kong Country, Mario Kart, Sly, etc. None of these games have complicated learning curces (with DKCR it's just move and jump).

You're picking and choosing games to include in a debate based off preference. Fable Kinect is as much of a core title as Fable, the only difference between the games is The Journey has no controller. Ryse is also an M rated game, definatly not something built for casual gamers. That would be like calling Killzone a casual game, just insane.

When you use youre definition of core, you basically eliminate Wii's entire lineup except Metroid and Zelda, and that's complete BS. Ryse is as much of a core game as Starhawk, it was built by Crytek, for the core audience. Just because you're not interested, doesn't mean it's not a game "core" gamers can experience on the 360, but not the PS3.


It wont be hard to learn Ryse, hence why its called casual. Secondly you pick and choose games by prefrence. As I said before, I could list the whole Sony lineup for 2011, but you would disregard it because of your preference in waiting for Q4 releases when all the only 360 AAA  titles come out for the year. You chose to disregard that Sony has been giving giving out quality titles year round.

Secondly, my definition of core does NOT remove Super Mario Galaxy, Donkey Kong or Mario Kart, because all of those games have a learning curve, and it seems like you dont remember our old conversation because this the same thing you accused me of before. My definition of core seems to be the media idea as well. Secondly I've told you already that Microsoft and Sony already seem to have similar audience of taste in their core section, who mainly play based on preference of system or have both. The Wii has its own loyal core fanbase, whom are loyal to their first party IP's complex or not. Nintendo stands out, hence why this gen turned out this way and Sony and Microsoft followed suit. Nintendo is the only company who can appeal to everyone with a gimmick. Kinect has none and Microsoft have none and Sony definitely doesn't have Crash (Sony's highest selling casual exclusive) or Spyro anymore whom the casuals remember so well from two gens ago when the Playstation was sucking up third party exclusives. Much like Nintendo said at E3 they are contradiction.

http://www.casualgamesassociation.org/faq.php

Look at the casual games associations concept of what a casual title is.

 

Ryse is one of the first Kinect games to use finger controls. Individual finger commands, such as gouging someones eyes, will be recognized by Kinect. However there will be many different types of ways to attack and defend in Ryse. A "core" gamer should have much more trouble learning to play this game then Call of Duty. This game is not like Wii Sports, it's a core title.

I'm not ignoring Sony's past lineup, but why would I include Sony's past 2011 games, when all we are talking about is E3 onward? Do you see the thread topic? We are talking about upcoming games, not 2011 overall. If you want to bring in past games and the library in general, make a separate thread.

Ryse and Fable will not have learning curves? So Fable 1-3 are core RPG's, but now that Fable uses Kinect instead of a controller it's no longer core? You realize the gameplay is very similar overall. This is complete bull, you're just looking for reasons to ignore core titles.

Will you just admit, 360 has more comming out then Sony has for PS3? Stop changing the topic, stop whining that 360 isn't satisfying the core.

BTW That link, and you, have two completely different deffinitions for casual games. According to the Casual Games Association

"Developed for the general public and families, casual games are video games that are fun and easy to learn and play.

I really, REALLY doubt Ryse is being developed for the general public or families. Since when ever are M rated games casual? Same goes for Fable, it is a core franchise for 360, using a Kinect controller, versus a conventional controller, makes no difference.

Stop with this now, your own link contradicts you. Ryse and Fable are core, doesn't matter if YOU are interested in them or not. I'm not interested in Sly or Starhawk, but do I exclude them as core titles? Sly Cooper actually fits that definition much better then Ryse since it's an E rated game, developed for a more general audience.


Kinect Fable isnt the same as the fable franchise (which fell way down hill after two). Three was good but not great and nowhere near what Molyneux made it out to be. Molyneux is so desperate to prove how great the Kinect is as is going to put the final nail in his own games coffin by betting there is a core crowd for it. The core with a kinect will probably buy it from name value, but it isn't core. You do know the major thing that seperates casual titles from the core right? I bet you know what that big answer is! Don't hide it! lol



Zappykins on 22 June 2011

I thought Sony has some better trailers for the same games that would also be on the X360. Sony had one game that I really wanted to play. I really enjoyed the live music from Nintendo's event. I am not sure about WiiU - not thrilled about the name (still disdain for the the 'Double You, Eye, Eye name), No up scaling of Wii games, and only one video screen to fight over, I remain unconvinced.

For what I am going to be using and playing before the Next E3 is what Microsoft showed at the event. Xbox Bing, voice search, Ryse, Star Wars, Forza 4, Mass Effect 3.

I already have Kinect and like it. So no Kinect groaning from me. I am actually looking forward to how it improves play options.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!
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Michael-5 on 22 June 2011
brendude13 said:
Michael-5 said:
brendude13 said:
 

The XBOX 360 is set to have its weakest year so far while the PS3 is set to have its best year so far. I just wouldn't expect to hear something like that when the XBOX 360 has next to no exclusives game coming out in the near future outside of Kinect games and the flagship titles like Halo, Gears and Forza.

I understand now because you were including Kinect titles, don't worry, I was thinking more about hardcore games.

But a lot of upcoming Kinect titles are core, even though most aren't. Steel Batallion, Rise of Nightmares, Ryse, and debatably Fable.

It is true though, that MS needs to establish a new IP. Those Kinect games won't be AAA, but they may sell close to what Sly Cooper sells.

Then agin, do you consider something like Sly Cooper hardcore, or casual?

Core =/= Good

I don't have faith in any "core" Kinect game, it just doesn't seem feasible to have core controls with a Kinect game. I was focusing on games from highly rated and well respected developers, preferably without motion controls.

It would be great to see a new IP from Microsoft, they need to throw some spare change at Rare and kick their asses back into gear.

As for Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time, I wouldn't call it hardcore or casual, it's a game for everyone. I haven't actually played it and I don't plan to either, but it reminds me of Crash Bandicoot and Spyro, it's a game that both casual and hardcore audiences can love.

A game for everyone huh? So where do you draw the line for a casual experience? Is Mario Kart casual, or for everyone? What about Just Dance, or Wii Sports?

As for a "core" Kinect game. I can see why anyone would be skeptical. Remember how many people were skeptical of Wii when it came out? However it works, Metroid Prime 3 is probably the funnest FPS I have ever played, but most good Wii games don't use the Wii-mote to it's fullest (Smash Bros, Mario Kart, etc).

However showing "core" Kinect games, skeptical as most gamers might be, they are still "core." It's just not traditional controller based core games, and I'll agree MS definatly needs more traditional games.



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Michael-5 on 22 June 2011
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Michael-5 said:

Lots of PS3 fans on this site, so OP may be in regards to forum comments, but I don't read anywhere, who honestly thought Wii was better then PS3 or 360.

I claim large scale professional websites and the journalists among them never said PS3 had a better press conference then 360.

STAGE watches Bonus Round, so I was just pointing out in Bonus Round itself they said the same thing. 360 debatably had a better press conference then Sony themselves. If you really hate Kinect and Halo, then I can see why someone like STAGE would prefer PS3, but he shouldn't just crop out all the core Kinect titles and limit the 360 core lineup to a couple games this fall and Halo, and then crop out Halo 4 since it's released in fall 2012 (like Starhawk and other PS3 games).

Bonus Round Scores for E3:

Microsoft: Jeff: C  Andy: C- Nguy: B+     

Sony: Nguy: A- (because of new hardware), Andy: C (Thought Sony and Microsoft would've tied had it not been for kinect also more interesting games and the successful pricing of the PSVita on Sonys part), C+

Nintendo: Nguy: A Andy: B Jeff: B

They never said anything about 360 having a better conference. They said it was too kinect heavy, especially to the market they were showing off games to at E3. Don't get me started on the Invisible Walls show. Lets just say some 360 fans were pissed off at some words that were said during E3 about Microsofts conference. They knew full well Microsoft wasnt focused on the core.

Nowhere do they say specifically PS3 > 360.

  • Nguy says he only gave Sony a better score then Microsoft as a whole because of PSV.
  • Andy basically said PS3=360, except PSV saved Sony, and even with PSV, if MS put less emphasis on Kinect, they could have tied
  • Jeff is the same story. New hardware made the Sony Press Conference better.

No one states that PS3 > 360 except for a few forum members. No large scale review agency, no nothing. The reason why this thread was created was likely to adress why forum users think PS3/Wii > 360.



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Michael-5 on 22 June 2011
S.T.A.G.E. said:

Kinect Fable isnt the same as the fable franchise (which fell way down hill after two). Three was good but not great and nowhere near what Molyneux made it out to be. Molyneux is so desperate to prove how great the Kinect is as is going to put the final nail in his own games coffin by betting there is a core crowd for it. The core with a kinect will probably buy it from name value, but it isn't core. You do know the major thing that seperates casual titles from the core right? I bet you know what that big answer is! Don't hide it! lol

Peter Molyneux always over-hypes his games, and he never meets expectations.

Kinect games can be core, I already showed you. That very link you posed which defined casual games, does not label Fable: The Journey a casual game. It is not being developed for families or for a broad audience, it is being developed for Fable RPG fans.

It's core, weather you like it or not. You swung, and missed, now get over it.

360 had a better press conference then PS3 did this E3, but not by much. In the end, they were all bad. The only AAA title announced was Halo 4, that alone gives 360 the best conference. What really good game did Sony announce? Dust 514, yea I bet you have never played Eve Online, Console MMO's don't work. Starhawk? Yea a sequel to an 8/10 game pssh. Or Sly Cooper, no bigger game then any of the Kinect titles MS talked about.



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S.T.A.G.E. on 22 June 2011
Michael-5 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
 

Kinect Fable isnt the same as the fable franchise (which fell way down hill after two). Three was good but not great and nowhere near what Molyneux made it out to be. Molyneux is so desperate to prove how great the Kinect is as is going to put the final nail in his own games coffin by betting there is a core crowd for it. The core with a kinect will probably buy it from name value, but it isn't core. You do know the major thing that seperates casual titles from the core right? I bet you know what that big answer is! Don't hide it! lol

Peter Molyneux always over-hypes his games, and he never meets expectations.

Kinect games can be core, I already showed you. That very link you posed which defined casual games, does not label Fable: The Journey a casual game. It is not being developed for families or for a broad audience, it is being developed for Fable RPG fans.

It's core, weather you like it or not. You swung, and missed, now get over it.

360 had a better press conference then PS3 did this E3, but not by much. In the end, they were all bad. The only AAA title announced was Halo 4, that alone gives 360 the best conference. What really good game did Sony announce? Dust 514, yea I bet you have never played Eve Online, Console MMO's don't work. Starhawk? Yea a sequel to an 8/10 game pssh. Or Sly Cooper, no bigger game then any of the Kinect titles MS talked about.


lol you dont get it do you? Without a controller anyone can play the game. They've broken the wall between the casuals and core, thus making the game casual yet open for all to enjoy. An RPG without the complexities of the way we game with a controller is exactly what casuals need to see what we see in gaming. In essence, if the game isnt a rail title, then you can definitely not only(much like other kinect titles) ride the movies, but actually be in the movie. Lets see how this goes.



Michael-5 on 22 June 2011
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Michael-5 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
 

Kinect Fable isnt the same as the fable franchise (which fell way down hill after two). Three was good but not great and nowhere near what Molyneux made it out to be. Molyneux is so desperate to prove how great the Kinect is as is going to put the final nail in his own games coffin by betting there is a core crowd for it. The core with a kinect will probably buy it from name value, but it isn't core. You do know the major thing that seperates casual titles from the core right? I bet you know what that big answer is! Don't hide it! lol

Peter Molyneux always over-hypes his games, and he never meets expectations.

Kinect games can be core, I already showed you. That very link you posed which defined casual games, does not label Fable: The Journey a casual game. It is not being developed for families or for a broad audience, it is being developed for Fable RPG fans.

It's core, weather you like it or not. You swung, and missed, now get over it.

360 had a better press conference then PS3 did this E3, but not by much. In the end, they were all bad. The only AAA title announced was Halo 4, that alone gives 360 the best conference. What really good game did Sony announce? Dust 514, yea I bet you have never played Eve Online, Console MMO's don't work. Starhawk? Yea a sequel to an 8/10 game pssh. Or Sly Cooper, no bigger game then any of the Kinect titles MS talked about.


lol you dont get it do you? Without a controller anyone can play the game. They've broken the wall between the casuals and core, thus making the game casual yet open for all to enjoy. An RPG without the complexities of the way we game with a controller is exactly what casuals need to see what we see in gaming. In essence, if the game isnt a rail title, then you can definitely not only(much like other kinect titles) ride the movies, but actually be in the movie. Lets see how this goes.

Why does not having a controller do that? What's so different between making a hand command then pressing a button?

If I can play a hardcore FPS such as ghost recon without a controller, isn't it possible to make an RPG with deep controls? Like I said earlier, Fable was always a simple game, by replacing A with actually jumping, and XYB buttons with hand commands, and the analog stick with leaning, we aren't exactly dumbing down the game. We could in fact remove sub menus for magic, and the emotion wheel with hand gestures, giving more commands possible then with a conventional controller.

This may help casual gamers jump into Fable, but by no means does it make Fable a casual game.

Take oniyide's analogy to Resident Evil. The on rails Resident Evil games, although more accessable to casual gamers, are still core titles. Fable is in a similar boat now, although it isn't on rails and the controls will likely be more sophisticated, it still likely won't be of the same quality as a mainstream Resident Evil game.

So if anything, treat Fable: The Journey to be like ODST was to Halo. Still a great game, any Fable fan will accept, but not as good as the mainstream titles. Still, by all definitions you have provided, a core experience.

P.S. Isn't Sly Cooper the same idea? A "game casual yet open for all to enjoy." as you put Fable? Why ignore Fable, but count Sly Cooper as a core experience?



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