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Forums - General Discussion - being gay a choice vs born that way.

 

being gay a choice vs born that way.

It's a lifestyle choice 120 25.53%
 
Your born that way 250 53.19%
 
no opinion 36 7.66%
 
other---for anything I missed 62 13.19%
 
Total:468
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:


You went gay for Homer

You still went gay for me.


I wouldnt touch you with a 20 meters long stick

Well obviously not. I mean, you don't even have a 20 meter long "stick".



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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Smidlee said:
sapphi_snake said:

 

The thing is that, regardless of what makes someone be attracted to people of the same sex, homosexual sex isn't something that can be considered objectively wrong (such as murder), therefore there is no logical reason why people should be ostracized for practicing it.

Actually I think  it's "the wrong" (a whole list of them) which  makes it's attractive. People are rebels by nature. 
Now if you want to say people are born to rebel then I agree. But overcoming this inward rebellion is what separate a man /lady from being animals.

Several counter-arguments to your (terribly weak) argument:

1. Homosexuality has always existed, and there were moments when it wasn't considered wrong.

2. Animals don't have concepts of "right" or "wrong".

3. People aren't rebels by nature. Most people are actually sheep.

4. Rebels don't do things because they're "wrong" (unless they're rebelling for the sake of rebelling). Rebels challenge  the notion of whether the thing considered "wrong" is actually "wrong" in the first place. The "rebel spirit" you talk about is actually the main source of human progress (we'd still be in the Dark ages without it).

5. There is no convincing argument you can come up with that would qualify homosexuality as objectively "wrong".



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

osamanobama said:

its largely environmental, so its a choice.

no one is born Gay.

but no one should hate gays, you should love the person and hate the sin.

edit: people (espcecially mods, learn what homophobia means, its one of the most misused term that is just thrown out there, to try to discredit peoples arguments)

No. It being environmental doesn't make it a choice. It would also be nice if you shared your proof. Such a statement requires some sort of proof.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

fordy said:

Here's an exercise to all the hetero people who are still convinced that homosexuality is a choice:

If homosexuality is a choice made by someone, then it must be a choice that everyone has the ability to make. I dare you to sit down and "choose" to be attracted to the same gender. Let's see hpw far you go on that. And when you fail, and realise just how wrong it feels, keep in mind that that's how millions of gays forced to lived a heterosexual life feel like all the time.

Dude, don't bother. The homophobes always ignore this little argument that would essentially force them to admit they're wrong.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Why does it seem like so many straight (especially men) people are scared of gay people? They must be awfully insecure about themselves. Even though I'm straight myself, I still take it as a compliment if a man finds me attractive, as much as if a woman does and it doesn't freak me out.

It seems like a lot of people carry around the misconception that gay people are sexual deviants who will;

A: Rape your ass any chance they get.

B: Are sexually aroused by any and all members of the same sex without exceptions, they have no sexual preference it seems (not to be mistaken for sexual orientation).

Also note that women are considerably more tolerant with lesbians than heterosexual men are with homosexual men, this is a male problem, predominantly. There are even men who like to watch lesbians have sex and hate on gay men at the same time because its "gross" and "unnatural". Most of the lesbians I know have a lot of straight friends while most of the gay men I know have very few straight friends. You all just need to grow up. Discrimination based on ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, social status or appearance is to be regarded as equally unjust and childish imo.



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sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:


You went gay for Homer

You still went gay for me.


I wouldnt touch you with a 20 meters long stick

Well obviously not. I mean, you don't even have a 20 meter long "stick".


I do. You wanna see it?



Mummelmann said:

Why does it seem like so many straight (especially men) people are scared of gay people? They must be awfully insecure about themselves. Even though I'm straight myself, I still take it as a compliment if a man finds me attractive, as much as if a woman does and it doesn't freak me out.

It seems like a lot of people carry around the misconception that gay people are sexual deviants who will;

A: Rape your ass any chance they get.

B: Are sexually aroused by any and all members of the same sex without exceptions, they have no sexual preference it seems (not to be mistaken for sexual orientation).

Also note that women are considerably more tolerant with lesbians than heterosexual men are with homosexual men, this is a male problem, predominantly. There are even men who like to watch lesbians have sex and hate on gay men at the same time because its "gross" and "unnatural". Most of the lesbians I know have a lot of straight friends while most of the gay men I know have very few straight friends. You all just need to grow up. Discrimination based on ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, social status or appearance is to be regarded as equally unjust and childish imo.


I am not gonna say anything about your argument, but please dont act like you are better and more ''grown up'' than people who don't like to be around gay people. That itself is discrimination.



pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:


You went gay for Homer

You still went gay for me.


I wouldnt touch you with a 20 meters long stick

Well obviously not. I mean, you don't even have a 20 meter long "stick".


I do. You wanna see it?

Nah. Keep it in your pants.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

pizzahut451 said:
Mummelmann said:

Why does it seem like so many straight (especially men) people are scared of gay people? They must be awfully insecure about themselves. Even though I'm straight myself, I still take it as a compliment if a man finds me attractive, as much as if a woman does and it doesn't freak me out.

It seems like a lot of people carry around the misconception that gay people are sexual deviants who will;

A: Rape your ass any chance they get.

B: Are sexually aroused by any and all members of the same sex without exceptions, they have no sexual preference it seems (not to be mistaken for sexual orientation).

Also note that women are considerably more tolerant with lesbians than heterosexual men are with homosexual men, this is a male problem, predominantly. There are even men who like to watch lesbians have sex and hate on gay men at the same time because its "gross" and "unnatural". Most of the lesbians I know have a lot of straight friends while most of the gay men I know have very few straight friends. You all just need to grow up. Discrimination based on ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, social status or appearance is to be regarded as equally unjust and childish imo.


I am not gonna say anything about your argument, but please dont act like you are better and more ''grown up'' than people who don't like to be around gay people. That itself is discrimination.

I am more grown up than those people, its not an act.

Is it discrimination to point out the lunacy of irrational fear and hatred? Hating and shunning someone for their sexual orientation is discriminatory, pointing out that it is is not. By your logic, I can't tell people who hate all black people (KKK for instance) that their hate is irrational and unfair since its discrimination.

If I were to bash someones basis for the hatred and fear, say having read the bible and believeing in god, that would be discrimination. Clearly, that is not what I'm doing. Hate on gay people all you want, but I reserve the right to think myself the more grown up on the subject at hand. Am I a better person? Impossible to say, I harbour no such illusions. I fear and hate certain things as well but there's a reason behind it all. There is no reason to hate and/or fear gay people.



I believe it is not a choice and I have my beliefs as to why and those beliefs came from experience.

 

Growing up in my household was tough at time because ever since my brother was around 3-4 years old he would constantly get caught taking my sisters and/or mothers clothing and wearing them. Whenever this happened he would get yelled at by my parents.

Now some may think that is mean, but it is understandable for a parent to freak out when their son thinks he is their daughter. This continued all throughout his life until he was about 25 years old. That is when he decided to move away and told us it was because he did not feel comfortable living a lie.

We asked what he meant and he told us it was because all his life he has felt like a woman trapped in a mans body. He was upset when he would get yelled at for trying to be who he felt he was supposed to be. Of course we stayed in contact as I love my family regardless of the choices they make or who they want to be.

 

After years of being away he recently moved back here. He had his named legally changed, took medication to develop breasts and now does modeling.

 

I doubt he could do all of this because he made a choice to become transgender. He was able to do all of this because that is who he really was. That is what he always felt, and now that he took that leap and decided to live his life the way he felt he was meant to he is now happier than I have ever seen and also much more confident.

Making a choice to just start being gay as opposed to being born that way does not yield these kinds of results. I don't care what anyone says.



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