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NotStan said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
[..]

As I wrote answering other people, I know these methods existed before Lenin and Stalin, but Soviet Union, together with Mussolini, were the first to apply a scientific, systematic approach to the matter, and all the even barely acceptable amongst their methods were quickly recognized as highly effective and adopted by both not marxist politicians and, outside of politics, publicists and marketing experts.

About MS, I'm sure it will never directly smear competitors, and it's also cautious just attacking them, the most direct things I could see up until now are Greenberg's rants, Turn 10's attacks and trash talk against GT5, and, many years ago, Ballmer's mafia-style vague, impersonal, indirect threats against Marc Andreessen and Netscape, throwing chairs to Google and ridiculous attacks against Linux and GPL ("Get the Facts" campaign, "cancer" and similar BS).

As I wrote elsewhere, I also know that other companies use these methods, but when trolling and astroturfing, Sony minions are never as subtle and stealthy as MS ones, you can bust them easily.

Nintendo fans and also its official propaganda are a lot more direct. Nintendo's typical trait is ignoring competitors with understated superiority, while its most enthusiastic fans shift from superiority when Ninty crushes competitors to anger and whining when things don't go so well.  But Ninty is also as good as MS or even more to create buzz and hype. Who could have been Nintendo's strongest astroturfer, Malstrom, suddenly went off his head and began believing he's God, and now he's liked only by a small inner circle, while he managed to get almost everybody else angered with his attitude, not good astroturfing by any means.

Actually you'd find Sony minions get away with much more in comparison with the MS ones, so unless you're trolling stealthly, you will get the banhammer in the face. I personally find this whole fanboy propaganda aload of BS, but some people are very adamant that this site is Sony biased or even MS biased or even Nintendo biased. If you look at the general threads, 360 related ones in particular you'd find ALOT more Sony fans stealthly trolling that thread, I rarely see any other fanbase as arrogant as Sony if I might say so myself, I like the product and admit that PS3 is better to an extent, so I am in no way trolling here, but the community is what deters me in most cases.

Really, you can't generalize all the MS fans and compare them to the Communist party method of propaganda when everyone does it. It's as if I go "French people eat cheese, they're cheesy bastards!", that wouldn't make much sense, because that's stereotyping and there are people among other nations that eat cheese.

Poor case scenario but meh.

I never generalized, don't put words in my mouth, if you read my first post about this issue, I never wrote "MS fans" but just the minority of trolls and astroturfers, accusing of the most hypocritical behaviour just "two or free" of them. I can't deny that I believe some normal fans unaware of it can fall for astroturfing and become part of a piloted mob (but even so most of them won't go as far as behaving in any bad way), but I wasn't targetting them, instead I meant to expose these methods also to their benefit.

And the hypocrisy bit was specifically about some clever astroturfers shutting up some totally innocent Sony fans that complained about more or less stealthy trolling and telling them with a quite patronizing tone they had not to play the victim (so those astroturfers were the ones actually generalizing there).

OTOH I directly addressed only astroturfers and trolls, I never attacked normal MS fans and never told them they must shut up due to trolls' and astroturfers' behaviour they are actually innocent of. Again, don't put words in my mouth.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


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Alby_da_Wolf said:
[..]

I never generalized, don't put words in my mouth, if you read my first post about this issue, I never wrote "MS fans" but just the minority of trolls and astroturfers, accusing of the most hypocritical behaviour just "two or free" of them. I can't deny that I believe some fans unaware of it can fall for astroturfing and become a piloted mob (but even so most of them won't go as far as behaving in any bad way), but I wasn't targetting them, instead I meant to expose these methods also to their benefit.

And the hypocrisy bit was specifically about some clever astroturfers shutting up some totally innocent Sony fans that complained about more or less stealthy trolling and telling them with a quite patronizing tone they had not to play the victim (so those astroturfers were the ones actually generalizing there).

OTOH I directly addressed only astroturfers and trolls, I never attacked normal MS fans and never told them they must shut up due to trolls' and astroturfers' behaviour they are actually innocent of. Again, don't put words in my mouth.

Well that explains it then, started off with a misunderstanding. Just dont forget every camp has their own set of douchebags, in this instance it may have been from the MS camp, but there are plenty of instances where people from other camps are stealth trolling etc and get away with it, without comments such as yours. I now expect you to bring up this political example every time someone is stealth trolling, just not to show any bias!



Disconnect and self destruct, one bullet a time.

Edit: oops, I'll answer more completely your edited post in my next one, to avoid confusion and duplicates.

 



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


NotStan said:
Alby_da_Wolf said:
[..]

I never generalized, don't put words in my mouth, if you read my first post about this issue, I never wrote "MS fans" but just the minority of trolls and astroturfers, accusing of the most hypocritical behaviour just "two or free" of them. I can't deny that I believe some fans unaware of it can fall for astroturfing and become a piloted mob (but even so most of them won't go as far as behaving in any bad way), but I wasn't targetting them, instead I meant to expose these methods also to their benefit.

And the hypocrisy bit was specifically about some clever astroturfers shutting up some totally innocent Sony fans that complained about more or less stealthy trolling and telling them with a quite patronizing tone they had not to play the victim (so those astroturfers were the ones actually generalizing there).

OTOH I directly addressed only astroturfers and trolls, I never attacked normal MS fans and never told them they must shut up due to trolls' and astroturfers' behaviour they are actually innocent of. Again, don't put words in my mouth.

Well that explains it then, started off with a misunderstanding. Just dont forget every camp has their own set of douchebags, in this instance it may have been from the MS camp, but there are plenty of instances where people from other camps are stealth trolling etc and get away with it, without comments such as yours. I now expect you to bring up this political example every time someone is stealth trolling, just not to show any bias!

Absolutely, but to avoid leaving anything unsolved, finally, about the number of trolls issue, just think about statistics: if trolls and astroturfers are roughly the same percent in every camp, it's mathematical that the largest crowd will contain the largest number of them.

And obviously that MS ones are more skilled is my opinion, but I tend to see Sony ones either more directly aggressive or just more boastful. And I just don't understand Sony fans, be them either trolls or fair ones attacking or trolling Kinect, IMVHO its main target is Nintendo, and particularly Balance Board, and it actually hit the latter quite hard.

About bringing up this example against any stealth troll, I'm not unbiased and despite not being really a Sony or Nintendo fan, I tend to defend them more than MS (but I also like mild jokish trolling against Ninty, and particularly Mario ), but I'm sure stealth trolls against MS will find adequate forces to fend them off. Also, my original post was caused by a particular behaviour, someone shutting up innocent Sony fans, holding against them the troll minority's offences. My rant was only against them, while more blatant trolling, also against Sony, almost doesn't offend me, sometimes I even find it amusing, just like I enjoy most Pachter threads.   





Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


How does a WW sales thread turn into a MS is like Soviet Russia? 0_o

I think I have seen everything now so I can die happily and peacefully now.



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yo_john117 said:

How does a WW sales thread turn into a MS is like Soviet Russia? 0_o

I think I have seen everything now so I can die happily and peacefully now.

You mean you'd gladly skip the good games in the not so distant future?



Rockstar: Announce Bully 2 already and make gamers proud!

Kojima: Come out with Project S already!

AussieGecko said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:

So has anyone got a link or some sort of proof of Microsoft saying there are shortages post holiday?  Or is this all based off the steam of the "Wii beat 360 in the holidays because of shortages" banter that started last month?


It was a pretty big one considering MS came out and said it. I have seen it first hand as well, in australia we are struggling for stock that i have seen.


So where is the link to them saying this?  If you want stock I can get you about 20 360s just from my local walmart



MaxwellGT2000 - "Does the amount of times you beat it count towards how hardcore you are?"

Wii Friend Code - 5882 9717 7391 0918 (PM me if you add me), PSN - MaxwellGT2000, XBL - BlkKniteCecil, MaxwellGT2000

huaxiong90 said:
yo_john117 said:

How does a WW sales thread turn into a MS is like Soviet Russia? 0_o

I think I have seen everything now so I can die happily and peacefully now.

You mean you'd gladly skip the good games in the not so distant future?

Yes lol cause i have done, seen, and heard everything that I needed and wanted too so if I died right now I would die a happy man!



MaxwellGT2000 said:
AussieGecko said:
MaxwellGT2000 said:

So has anyone got a link or some sort of proof of Microsoft saying there are shortages post holiday?  Or is this all based off the steam of the "Wii beat 360 in the holidays because of shortages" banter that started last month?


It was a pretty big one considering MS came out and said it. I have seen it first hand as well, in australia we are struggling for stock that i have seen.


So where is the link to them saying this?  If you want stock I can get you about 20 360s just from my local walmart

Is majornelsons tweet a good source?

 

  1. Jan/Feb supply is tight as well. Likely amazing YOY growth numbers for Xbox. We’ll find out tomorrow! (2/2)
  2. NPD tomorrow. I found out we ran out of consoles at end of the month (!) so don’t expect to win Dec. (1/2)


Despite shortages, the 360 is outselling the PS3 WW, and outselling the Wii in America... Equalling the DS.

That does seem very strange.

Either we're over tracking it, or the shortages are bullshit...