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Forums - General Discussion - Church plans to burn the Quran on Sept. 11

Coca-Cola said:
sapphi_snake said:

@Coca-Cola

I would disagree that secularism made the west a good place.

I think Christianity made the West a great place.

You're free to hold that opinion, but it's contrary to reality.

Christian Taliban?  haha.  I'm sure you'd like for something like that but Christianity has evolved very well in the West -most productive and free.

Yes, of course I'd like that. You can never have too many suicide bombers, you know?

I don't deny that lack of education and poverty is a huge problem.  but a lot of these terrorists are well educated and rich - can't deny that.

If you're talking about the leaders that may be true. But it's the widesprea poverty and ignorance that permits them to manipulate and recruit common people over there. Why do you think Christianity no longer controls people like that in the West?

I hope you'll be against closing down the churches or limiting their freedom of faith and worship (like Turkey) or communism of the past.

I am against such practices. I don't view Christianity as deserving any more attention than any other religion, so why would I want churches to be closed down, when I don't want mosques/synagogues to be closed down? And you should add Christians (before the Church and state became separate and they could no longer have their way)  to your list of people who persecute others for thier religious beliefs.

It really seem like you don't like Christianity.  I would agree to disagree on what made West so great.  No doubt Christianity had a most to do with it.   Religious freedom and secular government are both influenced by Christianity.  And christianity encouraged education and continues to do so. You don't see all the good Christians are doing around the world today?

Only problem I have with Christianity is theology.  Some lose their common sense when it comes to thology, but in practice, I believe Christians encourages high values and morality.  


I am not a Christian, but my view on Christianity changed to that off great respect when I read the bible, thought about it, and read it again... Mostly because I feel like the greater number of those who call themselves Christian don't understand their own religion. That the books of the bible are not meant to be a narrative about the life o an actual person; but rather a story about the personification of the logos - a philosophical idea dating back to Greece. Jesus taught people to reject their beliefs, to turn against that which they took for absolute truth. Jesus himself is a character who personified the ideas which lead to the logos (similar to Buddhist Nirvana), he was not an actual person, but the result of the minds of some very wise men. Too bad only 30 books of more than 300 remain.

 

Christianity is a religion of love, love is what remains when belief is stripped away.

 

These pastors in Florida, they are not true Christians; hate mongering is something that grinds right against he core of what it means to be Christian.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

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So I'm hearing that book burning might be back on again.

 Read about it on USA Today.



Jumpin said:
Smidlee said:
Jumpin said:

The right to build a mosque is fine, it is a shot against intolerance. 

 

Burning books? Either these are very very evil and hateful people; or they're just a bunch of ignorant hillbillies; either way, they are supporting intolerance.

Tolerance is not a virtue  as the most tolerant people on earth are dead people. You can spit in their face and they won't say a word. Dead people don't even brag about how tolerant they are.  Also if you preach against intolerance then that in itself reflect intolerance.  It goes both ways , moving the mosque is also reflect to tolerance as well let this preacher burn any book he wants.
 What sometimes is called tolerance is nothing but the spirit of apathy.

There is very large difference in the flavour of intolerance of people based on race and religion, and the intolerance of a philosophy of hate.

There are examples found in scripture where Isreal destroy and burn up idols / false gods. Christianity and Islam can not be compatible because of where both stand on the person of Christ.  The reason why christians should not go around burning korans is this draws attention away from glorifying  Christ not because of tolerant or intolerant.  In America Christianity seems to have lost it meaning. It's true chrsitians are not  suppose to be in a physical war with Islam but no doubt according to scripture they are in a spiritual war against them.

 


 



Jumpin said:

I am not a Christian, but my view on Christianity changed to that off great respect when I read the bible, thought about it, and read it again... Mostly because I feel like the greater number of those who call themselves Christian don't understand their own religion. That the books of the bible are not meant to be a narrative about the life o an actual person; but rather a story about the personification of the logos - a philosophical idea dating back to Greece. Jesus taught people to reject their beliefs, to turn against that which they took for absolute truth. Jesus himself is a character who personified the ideas which lead to the logos (similar to Buddhist Nirvana), he was not an actual person, but the result of the minds of some very wise men. Too bad only 30 books of more than 300 remain.

Christianity is a religion of love, love is what remains when belief is stripped away.

lol you're making things up. Gnosticism was rejected by the Bible authors themselves (John and Paul) and Christian Gnosticism was practically erased already in the 2nd century AD.

Also how can anyone misunderstand the Bible so badly? The words of Jesus have lots of symbolism and aren't always easy to interpret but the Bible narrative itself is very concrete and down-to earth and clearly depicts real life events.



Jumpin said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Jumpin said:

The right to build a mosque is fine, it is a shot against intolerance. 

 

Burning books? Either these are very very evil and hateful people; or they're just a bunch of ignorant hillbillies; either way, they are supporting intolerance.


There is no law against being evil, hateful, or ignorant. As long as you do no harm to anyone, you can do what you want in a free country.

These people are doing nothing. They are acting within themselves in a manner that offends others. They are not damaging anyone else's property, or threatening anyone. To stop them, would be an act of intolerance.

People forget being free, means your free to do things others find disgusting. If everyone always did things we agreed with, we would never need laws.

So you think think that inciting violence is fine? These people ARE harming others with their act.

By your logic possession of child pornography should be legal since it doesn't directly harm anyone.

 

This is an act off ignorance, they do not care about the mission to bring peace between islam and the western world. They want to aggravate the situation, open up old wounds that were healing, and as a result, spill more blood. You are supporting stupidity, which will end in provoking violence, and cost lives.

 

Do I even need to mention how un-Christian hate-mongering is?

If you think child pornography doesn't directly harm anyone, you might want to see someone. That's a strange position to take on that subject. Sure, looking at it doesn't. But to look at it, it had to be created. Nothing bad had to happen in order for this man to have a book and a match.

I think what people need to focus on with respect to possible violence, is the people who would cause the violence, and why they would cause it.

The problem is not that 50 morons somewhere want to burn a stack of papers. The problem is that means so much to someone, they would kill over it. 

Your idea to bring peace to with the Western World and Islam is to make sure every one of the 300 million Americans walk on eggshells, and cater to the most violent of a religion?

Fuck that. I say that man, and every other American, has the freedom to exercise there rights, and if it pisses someone else off enough for them to inflict violence, the solution is to fix whomever is violent.



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I don't mean to sound rude or anything. But I don't see why this is such a big deal. It's one lousy book. There are tons of them, does this really need to get out of hand? It's so stupid. There are more important issues in the world over the burning of a book.



Kasz, he has a point that you have not given one iota of evidence that a mosque would really trigger such a reaction in many of the 9/11 PTSD sufferers.  It does seem like kind of an indirect thing to me, although I'm no expert on PTSD. 

(planes crashing into office building which is destroyed-->Muslim terrorists-->Islam in general-->Muslim architecture)



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Final-Fan said:

Kasz, he has a point that you have not given one iota of evidence that a mosque would really trigger such a reaction in many of the 9/11 PTSD sufferers.  It does seem like kind of an indirect thing to me, although I'm no expert on PTSD. 

(planes crashing into office building which is destroyed-->Muslim terrorists-->Islam in general-->Muslim architecture)


I kind of agree here.

Only thing that I could say where this could be an issue, is for the victims that visit the memorial to come out and see a big "we stuck it to you" structure down the street (I hear the Center is going to be 12 stories tall, and visible from the site).

So, there is a chance that the building could negate an area where people could visit to try and get closer.

I think that's a weak argument, but I am also not a victim looking for closer. My opinion is:
American victims of 911 > foreign investors who want to put a mosque next to it.



DukeOfLuxembourg said:

Terry Jones may be a Christian fundamentalist. But if he now understood it or not: What he is doing here is pure enlightenment: he takes the power away from a powerful religion.

Of course, the muslim rulers & mullahs are going apeshit about Qu'ran burnings. They fear for their power. These people want to take us on the collar, because we are free. Because our freedom is a glowing example for the oppressed people in Islamic countries. It is no coincidence that America enjoys high regard & respect from many Iranian opposition figures. The Americans have things the mullahs regimes never can & will offer: freedom, democracy, prosperity and lots of liberal television series. All this can not please the mullahs.

Islam lives by the fact that he has kindly apply to all over the world. Wherever you do not respect him, he loses his power over men. And the mullahs fear this like the devil fears the holywater.

Of course its no coincidence, it's a basic power play. America and the Iranian Reformists have the same vested interest against Ahmadinejad and the Conservatives.

In the 90's, America was viewed favorably by some radical Islamists: we helped them shoot the Soviets, and we saved the Bosnian Muslims from the Serbs. Its all a matter of perception.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:

In the 90's, America was viewed favorably by some radical Islamists:


Can you link me to one?