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Forums - General Discussion - Church plans to burn the Quran on Sept. 11

Kasz216 said:

Er... no.  They aren't person facts... there basic truths.

1) Your just.. wrong here.

2) That dosen't actually give a rate of how many people recovers.  Just going with "many" which could be dozens for all you know.   It'd still be a very large number in the millions regardless.  Look at all the people who still have PTSD from wars. 

3) Once again shows a complete lack of knowledge of triggers.   Triggers aren't IMMEDIATELY developed the second it happens.  They develop over time, furthermore a lot of people with PTSD .   It's pure ignorance.

4)  It WOULD be mosques everwhere.  Just like Mcdonalds everywhere would be triggers.  HOWEVER a mosque at the site would be a STRONGER trigger.  Furthermore it's reasonable to move a mosque off of a place where it would be a strong trigger where people come to grive rather then moving them all.  It's basic civil planning.  To be mad at people buildign mosques anywhere would be stupid even though it will cause some people trouble.  You do need mosques.

To build a mosque at the epicenter of where people with issues gather... how do you not get that it's a very stupid and insensitive idea?

1) Your just.. wrong here.

That's your opinion.

2) That dosen't actually give a rate of how many people recovers.  Just going with "many" which could be dozens for all you know.   It'd still be a very large number in the millions regardless.  Look at all the people who still have PTSD from wars.

Oh please, you can't compare that terrorist attack with what veterans go through during war. The trauma isn't even half as big, and not to mention the exposure to the traumatic events. Show me a study that says that a significant number of people have PTSD because of the attacks NOW, not 9 years ago.

3) Once again shows a complete lack of knowledge of triggers.   Triggers aren't IMMEDIATELY developed the second it happens.  They develop over time, furthermore a lot of people with PTSD .   It's pure ignorance.

I'm ignorant? Again with the personal attacks. What makes you think that a significant number of the people who have PTSD due to the attacks have mosques as a trigger?  Do you have any studies backing that claim up? You insult me, yet you show no evidence prooving your claims.

4)  It WOULD be mosques everwhere.  Just like Mcdonalds everywhere would be triggers.  HOWEVER a mosque at the site would be a STRONGER trigger.  Furthermore it's reasonable to move a mosque off of a place where it would be a strong trigger where people come to grive rather then moving them all.  It's basic civil planning.  To be mad at people buildign mosques anywhere would be stupid even though it will cause some people trouble.  You do need mosques.

"STRONGER trigger"? Why? Got any proof of that? Triggers aren't standardised, and there's no rule to what can be a trigger, and what can make a trigger be stronger. It all depends on the individual.

Instead of insulting me and trying to insinuate that I'm ingnorant, how about you give out better arguments that are grounded in reality rather than made up by you.



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Smidlee said:
NKAJ said:

wow,this issue has really brought out some of the extremists that are on this site...

I mean ,do people seriously think that the crusades were actually morally right and a good thing to do? Yes many innocent Christians were killed,and then guess what the wonderful crusaders did,they then went and killed lots of innocent Muslims.

It is insensitive to put the mosque where it is being proposed but people are taking it way too far.People seem to forget that Christianity has hardly had a saintly past.

Asking if Crucades were morally right is like asking was it morally right for America to drop nukes on Japan during WW2. Those bombs (and factory bombings) killed a lot of "innocent" people as well. This is why it's called War. I wonder if Americans has what it takes to actually win a war anymore. I think our enemy might. There is a time for war and there is a time for peace.

 

Paranoid much? You sure seem to lack logic.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

Er... no.  They aren't person facts... there basic truths.

1) Your just.. wrong here.

2) That dosen't actually give a rate of how many people recovers.  Just going with "many" which could be dozens for all you know.   It'd still be a very large number in the millions regardless.  Look at all the people who still have PTSD from wars. 

3) Once again shows a complete lack of knowledge of triggers.   Triggers aren't IMMEDIATELY developed the second it happens.  They develop over time, furthermore a lot of people with PTSD .   It's pure ignorance.

4)  It WOULD be mosques everwhere.  Just like Mcdonalds everywhere would be triggers.  HOWEVER a mosque at the site would be a STRONGER trigger.  Furthermore it's reasonable to move a mosque off of a place where it would be a strong trigger where people come to grive rather then moving them all.  It's basic civil planning.  To be mad at people buildign mosques anywhere would be stupid even though it will cause some people trouble.  You do need mosques.

To build a mosque at the epicenter of where people with issues gather... how do you not get that it's a very stupid and insensitive idea?

1) Your just.. wrong here.

That's your opinion.

2) That dosen't actually give a rate of how many people recovers.  Just going with "many" which could be dozens for all you know.   It'd still be a very large number in the millions regardless.  Look at all the people who still have PTSD from wars.

Oh please, you can't compare that terrorist attack with what veterans go through during war. The trauma isn't even half as big, and not to mention the exposure to the traumatic events. Show me a study that says that a significant number of people have PTSD because of the attacks NOW, not 9 years ago.

3) Once again shows a complete lack of knowledge of triggers.   Triggers aren't IMMEDIATELY developed the second it happens.  They develop over time, furthermore a lot of people with PTSD .   It's pure ignorance.

I'm ignorant? Again with the personal attacks. What makes you think that a significant number of the people who have PTSD due to the attacks have mosques as a trigger?  Do you have any studies backing that claim up? You insult me, yet you show no evidence prooving your claims.

4)  It WOULD be mosques everwhere.  Just like Mcdonalds everywhere would be triggers.  HOWEVER a mosque at the site would be a STRONGER trigger.  Furthermore it's reasonable to move a mosque off of a place where it would be a strong trigger where people come to grive rather then moving them all.  It's basic civil planning.  To be mad at people buildign mosques anywhere would be stupid even though it will cause some people trouble.  You do need mosques.

"STRONGER trigger"? Why? Got any proof of that? Triggers aren't standardised, and there's no rule to what can be a trigger, and what can make a trigger be stronger. It all depends on the individual.

Instead of insulting me and trying to insinuate that I'm ingnorant, how about you give out better arguments that are grounded in reality rather than made up by you.


Being ignorant of PTSD isn't a personal attack.  It's just a statement that your ignorant about PTSD.

Which you are... incredibly so.  Seriously, read a book on PTSD or take a class on it if you plan to continue this conversation. 

Until you get some actual knowledge on the subject... I really am done.  You are just talking about stuff you have no idea about.  PTSD triggers all have different strengths based on locations and time.

You don't understand how a trigger would be stronger at the location of the trauma?  Really?  You shouldn't need a book for that one.



Kasz216 said:


Being ignorant of PTSD isn't a personal attack.  It's just a statement that your ignorant about PTSD.

Which you are... incredibly so.  Seriously, read a book on PTSD or take a class on it if you plan to continue this conversation. 

Until you get some actual knowledge on the subject... I really am done.  You are just talking about stuff you have no idea about.  PTSD triggers all have different strengths based on locations and time.

You don't understand how a trigger would be stronger at the location of the trauma?  Really?  You shouldn't need a book for that one.

Again, you still have yet to present any proof that a significant number of people (CURRENTLY) have PTSD regarding the attacks and are only assuming what triggers those people have or do no have. You're accusations that I have no knowledge of PTSD and the fact that you concentrate on that in your replies to me, rather than back up your claims with relevant data (soruces, studies etc.) is your way of distracting from the fact that you're pulling all this out of your ass and have no concrete proof to back up those claims.

I'm glad you're "really done". I'm tired of your worthless replies.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Kasz216 said:


Being ignorant of PTSD isn't a personal attack.  It's just a statement that your ignorant about PTSD.

Which you are... incredibly so.  Seriously, read a book on PTSD or take a class on it if you plan to continue this conversation. 

Until you get some actual knowledge on the subject... I really am done.  You are just talking about stuff you have no idea about.  PTSD triggers all have different strengths based on locations and time.

You don't understand how a trigger would be stronger at the location of the trauma?  Really?  You shouldn't need a book for that one.

If so many people have PTSD over 9/11, they should ban planes from flying over Manhattan, I mean that's gotta a MUCH STRONGER trigger than a Mosque.



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I say we all chip and an go down to the flood side in Pakistan/Afghanistant and make the worlds largest Sea World.

 

(If we are agrueing about incesitivity here then that last statement basically is what the mosque is to the people of NY.)

 

I'm just scratching my head on why the holy high hell people outside of New York are in on this. Like seriously why is the President of the US even talking about it or Hilary Clinton, she may be sec of state but she's not NY, she used to be the senator though.



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Terry Jones may be a Christian fundamentalist. But if he now understood it or not: What he is doing here is pure enlightenment: he takes the power away from a powerful religion.

Of course, the muslim rulers & mullahs are going apeshit about Qu'ran burnings. They fear for their power. These people want to take us on the collar, because we are free. Because our freedom is a glowing example for the oppressed people in Islamic countries. It is no coincidence that America enjoys high regard & respect from many Iranian opposition figures. The Americans have things the mullahs regimes never can & will offer: freedom, democracy, prosperity and lots of liberal television series. All this can not please the mullahs.

Islam lives by the fact that he has kindly apply to all over the world. Wherever you do not respect him, he loses his power over men. And the mullahs fear this like the devil fears the holywater.



sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:


Being ignorant of PTSD isn't a personal attack.  It's just a statement that your ignorant about PTSD.

Which you are... incredibly so.  Seriously, read a book on PTSD or take a class on it if you plan to continue this conversation. 

Until you get some actual knowledge on the subject... I really am done.  You are just talking about stuff you have no idea about.  PTSD triggers all have different strengths based on locations and time.

You don't understand how a trigger would be stronger at the location of the trauma?  Really?  You shouldn't need a book for that one.

Again, you still have yet to present any proof that a significant number of people (CURRENTLY) have PTSD regarding the attacks and are only assuming what triggers those people have or do no have. You're accusations that I have no knowledge of PTSD and the fact that you concentrate on that in your replies to me, rather than back up your claims with relevant data (soruces, studies etc.) is your way of distracting from the fact that you're pulling all this out of your ass and have no concrete proof to back up those claims.

I'm glad you're "really done". I'm tired of your worthless replies.

Outside of the proof i've already given?  All you've suggested is that "many" have recovered.  How much do you think "Many" is...?  20%?

You don't have a number... all you've done is prove my point for me.

I'm not "pulling this out of my ass".  I have an actual real life degree in psychology.

Hence why I keep saying you don't know what your talking about... becuase I've actually studied it.  For grades.  Because I know what i'm talking about.   I've stopped discussing it with you, because at this point it'd be like a Bioengineering graduate having an argument about bioengineering with me.  I just don't have the frame of refrence or understanding to even had said arguement.  It would be pointless for him to argue with me.

 

What it comes down to, is you think people should be assholes, just to be assholes.  Which is something I don't know why anyone would agree with.  When given the choice to make two equal choices, one of which is much more assholish and inconsiderate to people then the other, it's completely asnine to refuse to do it simply because it wasn't your orignal plan.

 

Heck, on a personal level, I don't give a damn.  Partly because I never really cared about 9/11.  It was tragic and i felt bad for the victims but it didn't feel any different then any other terrorist attacks that go on, be it suicide bombings in Israel, different liberation groups attacking or whatever. 

I just simply see a case where one group is needlessly antagonizing people who've been traumitized by an attack for no good reason.  The fact that some people actually think people shouldn't be criticized for that is just... stupid.



sapphi_snake said:

@Coca-Cola

I would disagree that secularism made the west a good place.

I think Christianity made the West a great place.

You're free to hold that opinion, but it's contrary to reality.

Christian Taliban?  haha.  I'm sure you'd like for something like that but Christianity has evolved very well in the West -most productive and free.

Yes, of course I'd like that. You can never have too many suicide bombers, you know?

I don't deny that lack of education and poverty is a huge problem.  but a lot of these terrorists are well educated and rich - can't deny that.

If you're talking about the leaders that may be true. But it's the widesprea poverty and ignorance that permits them to manipulate and recruit common people over there. Why do you think Christianity no longer controls people like that in the West?

I hope you'll be against closing down the churches or limiting their freedom of faith and worship (like Turkey) or communism of the past.

I am against such practices. I don't view Christianity as deserving any more attention than any other religion, so why would I want churches to be closed down, when I don't want mosques/synagogues to be closed down? And you should add Christians (before the Church and state became separate and they could no longer have their way)  to your list of people who persecute others for thier religious beliefs.

It really seem like you don't like Christianity.  I would agree to disagree on what made West so great.  No doubt Christianity had a most to do with it.   Religious freedom and secular government are both influenced by Christianity.  And christianity encouraged education and continues to do so. You don't see all the good Christians are doing around the world today?

Only problem I have with Christianity is theology.  Some lose their common sense when it comes to thology, but in practice, I believe Christians encourages high values and morality.  



@ Coca-Cola

It really seem like you don't like Christianity.

I like any religion as long as it doesn't try to influence my life.

No doubt Christianity had a most to do with it.

Do some studying on this issue.

Religious freedom and secular government are both influenced by Christianity. 

Not really. Study the origins of secularism.

You don't see all the good Christians are doing around the world today?

Lot's of organisations do good. Christianity is in no way special in that regard. Plus they often use the good they do to push their religious agenda in poor countries where they send missionaries.

Only problem I have with Christianity is theology.  Some lose their common sense when it comes to thology, but in practice, I believe Christians encourages high values and morality.  

Morality is subjective. I personally don't consider all Chrisitan principles to be moral.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)