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Forums - Nintendo - Give Us Back The Old Nintendo (Nowgamer article)

LordTheNightKnight said:

Nintendo shouldn't create sequels that don't change much then, as I said before, every gen I expect new experiences and games that are similar to each other are not new experiences. (1)

I shouldn't have to spend more money on an extra accessory to fix the controls in Brawl, they are horrible on the Wiimote.(2)

My opinion is shared by many people, just like the people who wrote the article this thread is based on and just because it's an opinion, it doesn't make it less true.(3) Nintendo have not delivered this gen software wise(4), they have made no effort to fix this problem, they have taken advantage over their nostalgia addicted userbase and introduced the same product over and over again except in different skins. (5)

Third Party support is lacking, yet Nintendo make no effort to fix that problem.(6) Core software has been lacking and yet Nintendo have only now started to fix that problem.(6) New projects and ideas are lacking and Nintendo have no reason to search for them. (7) Being successful has made Nintendo greedy, there sick of being at the bottom and their willing to do anything to stay on top. (8) The fans can keep on deluding themselves, but Nintendo have become the new Sony/Microsoft/Apple hybrid and they don't deserve half the devotion they get.(9)


1. Nintendo is not the only company that does that, so why are you singling them out?

2. Excuse me? You think I'm stating you buy that for that one game? The GC controller would also be for BC with GC games on the Wii, as well as working with VC games. Now even if you don't personally do that, you still shouldn't judge Brawl as though the option isn't there.

3. A subjective opinion cannot be true or false, so claiming it's one or the other is not a valid comment. And just because others share it doesn't mean another other than others share it, and from the sales of these games you are bashing on, you are part of a vocal minority.

4. No, they just haven't made games that pleas you personally, or others, but again, sales show you are a vocal minority.

5. You can't take advantage in the way you are describing unles that is what the people want. You're acting as though it's wrong to cater to their tastes.

6. Bullshit. You call being willing to market Monster Hunter 3 in the west, and even publishing it in Europe, doing nothing? And that's just the most famous thing. Nintendo has been talking to third parties about the Wii, since the beginning. So don't tell me they've been doing nothing.

6. You obviously didn't pay attention to the flood of those in the first two years of the Wii.

7. If there is no reason, then why are you blaming Nintendo for not doing it? Shouldn't you be blaming the lack of reason to do so?

8. God, it's this crap again. Nintendo can't get back on top by doing what you want. They tried that already, and it put them in third place.

9. No, you're just interpreting their actions that way. Nintendo's idea is to combat disinterest in gaming outside your group, and that doesn't make them greedy. It makes them good businessmen.

1. This discussion is about Nintendo, it isn't about Activision or EA and neither have consoles to support. Nintendo does and I expect more from them.

2. Super Smash Bros. Brawl should come with a GC controller, otherwise it's a broken game. Plenty of games are enhanced by accessories, I can't think of many that rely on them though, especially when the previous instalments worked just fine out of the box. It's like buying MW2 and realising that you can't play the game without a headset (which isn't true just in case you don't play MW2).

3. I wasn't saying my opinion is a fact, I'm saying that it's an opinion that many people share and that the point's I make aren't actually wrong because most of them are backed up by sound arguments and examples. It's only different if you want to ignore or judge Nintendos faults. I chose to judge them and others choose to ignore them.

4. When you have a large userbase and a distinct lack of good software, it's only rational that those 67 million people will clamour to whatever's available, no matter the quality.

5. Number 4 comes into play again. If there is a lack of variety and quality, then whatever's available will be bought, it doesn't matter what  it is. Motorstorm and Resistance sold extremely well because the PS3 launch was scarce, but when competition comes along the franchises take a hit, I see the same thing on the Wii except it's ongoing.

6. You only provided one example and that's with an already popular franchise. Give me some examples of what they've been doing to help Third Parties and then I'll compare it to the other console makers. Nintendo being the most successful, I expect the most support.

7. By no reason I meant that there making so much money and selling so well that they don't care about finding and supporting new ideas and projects.

8. They should find a middle ground then.

9. Businessmen are exactly what they are, but when people on the forums parade Nintendo around as if they were the Lords of Gaming, that they are so pure and devine and that everything they do is for goodness of gaming, I puke a little. Nintendo are out there to make money, they don't care how, they don't care about their consumers, they just want your money and the reason there not releasing a Star Fox on the Wii is because it's not going to make as much money as another Wii series spin off or a Mario sport's game. If that's fine with you, then great, enjoy Wii Relax, I'll just go back and play something new on another system.



Bet with Conegamer and AussieGecko that the PS3 will have more exclusives in 2011 than the Wii or 360... or something.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3879752

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"This discussion is about Nintendo, it isn't about Activision or EA and neither have consoles to support. Nintendo does and I expect more from them."

It doesn't matter if the discussion is about them. Simply holding the veiw of singling them out is a double standard.

"Super Smash Bros. Brawl should come with a GC controller, otherwise it's a broken game."

The Classic Controller is another option. The game wasn't going to come with both. Why not instead of whining about the controls, get either one, and enjoy some VC games as well.

"I wasn't saying my opinion is a fact, I'm saying that it's an opinion that many people share and that the point's I make aren't actually wrong because most of them are backed up by sound arguments and examples. It's only different if you want to ignore or judge Nintendos faults. I chose to judge them and others choose to ignore them."

Not agreeing that something is a fault is not ignoring it. I just happen to find other faults Nintendo has, and I've even called out some.

"When you have a large userbase and a distinct lack of good software, it's only rational that those 67 million people will clamour to whatever's available, no matter the quality."

You got it backwards. You can't get sales that large, for either the system or the games, unless it's what people want. People didn't buy Mario Kart Wii in droves because they were starving for a game. And if you believe gamers actually do such a thing, you are insulting the intelligence of gamers, no matter who they are.

"If there is a lack of variety and quality, then whatever's available will be bought, it doesn't matter what  it is."

No, that is a false belief. And it's a belief that developers have been losing money on. If you think we were supposed to buy mediocre third party games on the Wii because we were supposed to be starving for something, then... well myu response might violate the VG Charts ToS.

"Motorstorm and Resistance sold extremely well because the PS3 launch was scarce, but when competition comes along the franchises take a hit"

No, that could also mean the sequels didn't have the appeal of the first games. Again, it's insulting gamers to think they are just sheep who will buy anything if you starve them enough.

"You only provided one example and that's with an already popular franchise."

I already admitted it was just one example. You don't counter a comment with a point the comment makes.

Plus you know the Classic Controller redesign? That was working with Capcom as well. And Nintendo let third parties bundle the Motion with their games, when they could just as easily have refused. Plus Nintendo has shown they will publish even minor third party games in some regions, like the Trauma Center games.

Now you might think that's not enough, but a) that's just what I remember off the top of my head, so it's not everything, and b) you wrote "nothing", which this is already more than that.

"Nintendo being the most successful, I expect the most support."

If you mean from them, then you should also realize this support costs money, and guess what Nintendo doesn't have as much of compared to two worldwide corporations, who were willing to lose billions just to get market share? Nintendo does what they can.

"By no reason I meant that there making so much money and selling so well that they don't care about finding and supporting new ideas and projects."

No, they care. They are just also busy trying to fight disinterest first and foremost, and that actually did get done with the new IP of the Wii series. When they find a new IP that they feel can do even a fraction as much good as that series has done, they will put it on the Wii.

"They should find a middle ground then."

Well what do you call being done at E3? It showed them getting more third party support, and trying to make games that meet the old and new school better, not just for the Wii but for the 3DS. Even if you don't think that's enough, it is a step in the direction.

"Businessmen are exactly what they are, but when people on the forums parade Nintendo around as if they were the Lords of Gaming, that they are so pure and devine and that everything they do is for goodness of gaming, I puke a little."

Well that isn't what I'm about, and I don't think what others arguing with you are about.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

leatherhat said:

To me, its all about the fact that nintendos first party hasn't been as good as they used to be. And I'm not talking about making casual games, I'm talking about games like Mario Kart wii, Twilight Princess and brawl being the worst in their respective series.


I could not disagree more. MK wii is billions of times better than DD or Super Mario Kart. Cannot say anything about tp because I have not finished it yet. Brawl is also better than the first SSB. I absolutely hate that game. I will admit though, that SSBB felt like a step back from Melee.



"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." -My good friend Mark Aurelius

Boutros said:

Perhaps Xenoblade.

But The Last Story is not owned by Nintendo.

Er, yes it is.  Nintendo even copyrighted the title in western markets, and every published article on the game lists them under copyright.

 

'New' 1st party owned IPs on consoles this gen (retail only, not getting into downloadables)... 1st party developed titles are bolded too...

 

Nintendo (Wii)

  • Wii ____ (Nintendo EAD) 2006 *includes various subseries
  • Endless Ocean (Arika) 2007
  • Captain Rainbow (Skip) 2008 *features established Nintendo IPs within
  • Disaster: Day of Crisis (Monolith Soft) 2008
  • Takt of Magic (Taito) 2009 
  • Zangenki no Reginliev (Sandlot) 2010
  • And Kensaku (Shift) 2010
  • Xenoblade (Monolith Soft) 2010 
  • FlingSmash (Artoon) 2010
  • The Last Story (Mistwalker / tba) 2010
  • Cosmic Walker (Gaia) tba
Sony (PlayStation 3)
  • Resistance: Fall of Man (Insomniac Games) 2006
  • MotorStorm (Evolution Studios) 2006
  • The Eye of Judgement (Japan Studio) 2007
  • Heavenly Sword (Ninja Theory) 2007
  • LAIR (Factor-5) 2007
  • Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (Naughty Dog Software) 2007
  • Afrika (Rhino Studios) 2008 *published by Natsume in NA
  • LittleBig Planet (Media Molecule) 2008 *part of Play Create Share brand
  • White Knight Chronicles (Level-5) 2008
  • Demon's Souls (From Software) 2009 *published by Atlus in NA, NBGI in EU
  • inFamous (Sucker Punch Productions) 2009
  • EyePet (London Studio) 2009
  • M.A.G. Massive Action Game (Zipper Interactive) 2010
  • Modnation Racers (United Front Games) 2010 *part of Play Create Share brand
  • Kung-Fu Rider (Japan Studio) 2010
  • Sports Champions (London Studio) 2010
  • Start the Party (SuperMassive Games) 2010
  • The Fight: Lights Out (London Studio) 2010
  • The Shoot (Cohort Studios) 2010
  • TV SuperStars (Cambridge Studio) 2010
  • Sorcery (The Workshop) 2011
Microsoft (Xbox 360)
  • Kameo: Elements of Power (RARE) 2005
  • Every Party (Game Republic) 2005
  • N3: Ninety-Nine Nights (Q? Entertainment / Phantagram) 2006
  • Viva Pinata (RARE) 2006
  • Blue Dragon (Mistwalker / Artoon) 2006
  • Crackdown (Realtime Worlds) 2007
  • Lost Odyssey (Mistwalker / feelplus) 2007
  • Lips (iNiS) 2008
  • Infinite Undiscovery (tri-Ace) 2008 *published by Square Enix in all regions
  • Ninja Blade (From Software) 2009
  • Kinect _____ (RARE / BigPark / Good Science Studio) 2010 *includes various subseries
  • Kinectimals (Frontier Developments) 2010
  • Milo & Kate (Lionhead Studios) tba
...the Sony list is decently bigger, but it's worth noting that Sony is also titling it's casual brand of family games individually (ie: not Move Sports, Move Party, Move SuperStars, etc), while Nintendo and Microsoft went for a more unified approach.  We could probably count things like Wii Fit or Kinect JoyRide separately if need be.


Doobie_wop said:

1. This discussion is about Nintendo, it isn't about Activision or EA and neither have consoles to support. Nintendo does and I expect more from them.

2. Super Smash Bros. Brawl should come with a GC controller, otherwise it's a broken game. Plenty of games are enhanced by accessories, I can't think of many that rely on them though, especially when the previous instalments worked just fine out of the box. It's like buying MW2 and realising that you can't play the game without a headset (which isn't true just in case you don't play MW2).

3. I wasn't saying my opinion is a fact, I'm saying that it's an opinion that many people share and that the point's I make aren't actually wrong because most of them are backed up by sound arguments and examples. It's only different if you want to ignore or judge Nintendos faults. I chose to judge them and others choose to ignore them.

4. When you have a large userbase and a distinct lack of good software, it's only rational that those 67 million people will clamour to whatever's available, no matter the quality.

5. Number 4 comes into play again. If there is a lack of variety and quality, then whatever's available will be bought, it doesn't matter what  it is. Motorstorm and Resistance sold extremely well because the PS3 launch was scarce, but when competition comes along the franchises take a hit, I see the same thing on the Wii except it's ongoing.

6. You only provided one example and that's with an already popular franchise. Give me some examples of what they've been doing to help Third Parties and then I'll compare it to the other console makers. Nintendo being the most successful, I expect the most support.

7. By no reason I meant that there making so much money and selling so well that they don't care about finding and supporting new ideas and projects.

8. They should find a middle ground then.

9. Businessmen are exactly what they are, but when people on the forums parade Nintendo around as if they were the Lords of Gaming, that they are so pure and devine and that everything they do is for goodness of gaming, I puke a little. Nintendo are out there to make money, they don't care how, they don't care about their consumers, they just want your money and the reason there not releasing a Star Fox on the Wii is because it's not going to make as much money as another Wii series spin off or a Mario sport's game. If that's fine with you, then great, enjoy Wii Relax, I'll just go back and play something new on another system.

1. What about Sony and Microsoft that also release sequels to games?

2. I can play Brawl just fine with a Wiimote or Wiimote plus Nunchuk, ots by no means a broken game without a GC controller.

3. And you can have an opinion about a subject, just like can have an opinion about your opinion. And I wouldn't call your arguments sound.

4. The Wii has high quality software, if you don't like doesn't mean that others will also share your tastes.

5. If there no games that interest consumers they will simply not buy games. And arguably we are seing this with Red Steel and Red Steel 2.

6. It's in Nintendo's interest to promot games that can sell hardware, they are not a charity. And other 3rd party games Nintendo helped publish: Harvest Moon: Magical Melody, Resident Evil: Umbrella Chronicles, Zack and Wiki: Quest for Barbaros' Treasure, these 3 only for Australia, Naruto: Clash of Ninja Revolution(PAL), Harvest Moon: Tree of Tranquility(Australia), Samurai Warriors 3(NA and PAL).

And Nintendo has collaborated with 3rd parties on many Wii games: Monster Games(Excite Truck, Excitebots: Trick Racing), Next Level Games(Mario Strikers Charged, Punch-Out!!), Kuju Entertainment(Battalion Wars 2), Sega(Mario & Sonic Olympic games), Good-Feel(Wario Land: The Shake Dimension, Kirby's Epic Yarn), Arika(Endless Ocean games), Namco Bandai(Mario Super Sluggers), Tecmo(Fatal Frame IV), Cing(Another Code: R – A Journey into Lost Memories), Treasure(Sin & Punishment: Star Successor), Sandlot(Zangeki no Reginleiv), Artoon(FlingSmash), Team Ninja(Metroid: Other M), Square Enix(Mario Sports Mix), Mistwalker(The Last Story).

7. False. First off they are making such money because they came up with new ides, and they still are making new projects.

8. I say the Wii is a middle ground.

9. If a company doesn't make money it goes out of business. Nintendo should cater to as many consumers as possible, not a forum dwelling minority.



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jarrod said:
Boutros said:

Perhaps Xenoblade.

But The Last Story is not owned by Nintendo.

Er, yes it is.  Nintendo even copyrighted the title in western markets, and every published article on the game lists them under copyright.

 

'New' 1st party owned IPs on consoles this gen (retail only, not getting into downloadables)... 1st party developed titles are bolded too...

 

Nintendo (Wii)

 

  • Wii ____ (Nintendo EAD) 2006 *includes various subseries
  • Endless Ocean (Arika) 2007
  • Captain Rainbow (Skip) 2008 *features established Nintendo IPs within
  • Disaster: Day of Crisis (Monolith Soft) 2008
  • Takt of Magic (Taito) 2009 
  • Zangenki no Reginliev (Sandlot) 2010
  • And Kensaku (Shift) 2010
  • Xenoblade (Monolith Soft) 2010 
  • FlingSmash (Artoon) 2010
  • The Last Story (Mistwalker / tba) 2010
  • Cosmic Walker (Gaia) tba
Sony (PlayStation 3)
  • Resistance: Fall of Man (Insomniac Games) 2006
  • MotorStorm (Evolution Studios) 2006
  • The Eye of Judgement (Japan Studio) 2007
  • Heavenly Sword (Ninja Theory) 2007
  • LAIR (Factor-5) 2007
  • Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (Naughty Dog Software) 2007
  • Afrika (Rhino Studios) 2008 *published by Natsume in NA
  • LittleBig Planet (Media Molecule) 2008 *part of Play Create Share brand
  • White Knight Chronicles (Level-5) 2008
  • Demon's Souls (From Software) 2009 *published by Atlus in NA, NBGI in EU
  • inFamous (Sucker Punch Productions) 2009
  • EyePet (London Studio) 2009
  • M.A.G. Massive Action Game (Zipper Interactive) 2010
  • Modnation Racers (United Front Games) 2010 *part of Play Create Share brand
  • Kung-Fu Rider (Japan Studio) 2010
  • Sports Champions (London Studio) 2010
  • Start the Party (SuperMassive Games) 2010
  • The Fight: Lights Out (London Studio) 2010
  • The Shoot (Cohort Studios) 2010
  • TV SuperStars (Cambridge Studio) 2010
  • Sorcery (The Workshop) 2011
Microsoft (Xbox 360)
  • Kameo: Elements of Power (RARE) 2005
  • Every Party (Game Republic) 2005
  • N3: Ninety-Nine Nights (Q? Entertainment / Phantagram) 2006
  • Viva Pinata (RARE) 2006
  • Blue Dragon (Mistwalker / Artoon) 2006
  • Crackdown (Realtime Worlds) 2007
  • Lost Odyssey (Mistwalker / feelplus) 2007
  • Lips (iNiS) 2008
  • Infinite Undiscovery (tri-Ace) 2008 *published by Square Enix in all regions
  • Ninja Blade (From Software) 2009
  • Kinect _____ (RARE / BigPark / Good Science Studio) 2010 *includes various subseries
  • Kinectimals (Frontier Developments) 2010
  • Milo & Kate (Lionhead Studios) tba
...the Sony list is decently bigger, but it's worth noting that Sony is also titling it's casual brand of family games individually (ie: not Move Sports, Move Party, Move SuperStars, etc), while Nintendo and Microsoft went for a more unified approach.  We could probably count things like Wii Fit or Kinect JoyRide separately if need be.

You forgot Folklore and The Last Guardian for PS3.



leatherhat said:

To me, its all about the fact that nintendos first party hasn't been as good as they used to be. And I'm not talking about making casual games, I'm talking about games like Mario Kart wii, Twilight Princess and brawl being the worst in their respective series.


I think those two games are amongst the best in their respective series. :P



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

Boutros said:

You forgot Folklore and The Last Guardian for PS3.

Neither are new IPs exactly.  Folklore is based on the same world as Monster Kingdom: Jewel Summoner (PSP) and The Last Guardian is the 3rd game in the ICO series (which also share a world and mythology).  They're not numbered sequels, or direct sequels, but they're still based directly off established IP.   I also wouldn't call Link's Crossbow Training or Halo Wars new IPs.



jarrod said:
Boutros said:

Perhaps Xenoblade.

But The Last Story is not owned by Nintendo.

Er, yes it is.  Nintendo even copyrighted the title in western markets, and every published article on the game lists them under copyright.

 

'New' 1st party owned IPs on consoles this gen (retail only, not getting into downloadables)... 1st party developed titles are bolded too...

 

Nintendo (Wii)

 

  • Wii ____ (Nintendo EAD) 2006 *includes various subseries
  • Endless Ocean (Arika) 2007
  • Captain Rainbow (Skip) 2008 *features established Nintendo IPs within
  • Disaster: Day of Crisis (Monolith Soft) 2008
  • Takt of Magic (Taito) 2009 
  • Zangenki no Reginliev (Sandlot) 2010
  • And Kensaku (Shift) 2010
  • Xenoblade (Monolith Soft) 2010 
  • FlingSmash (Artoon) 2010
  • The Last Story (Mistwalker / tba) 2010
  • Cosmic Walker (Gaia) tba
Sony (PlayStation 3)
  • Resistance: Fall of Man (Insomniac Games) 2006
  • MotorStorm (Evolution Studios) 2006
  • The Eye of Judgement (Japan Studio) 2007
  • Heavenly Sword (Ninja Theory) 2007
  • LAIR (Factor-5) 2007
  • Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (Naughty Dog Software) 2007
  • Afrika (Rhino Studios) 2008 *published by Natsume in NA
  • LittleBig Planet (Media Molecule) 2008 *part of Play Create Share brand
  • White Knight Chronicles (Level-5) 2008
  • Demon's Souls (From Software) 2009 *published by Atlus in NA, NBGI in EU
  • inFamous (Sucker Punch Productions) 2009
  • EyePet (London Studio) 2009
  • M.A.G. Massive Action Game (Zipper Interactive) 2010
  • Modnation Racers (United Front Games) 2010 *part of Play Create Share brand
  • Kung-Fu Rider (Japan Studio) 2010
  • Sports Champions (London Studio) 2010
  • Start the Party (SuperMassive Games) 2010
  • The Fight: Lights Out (London Studio) 2010
  • The Shoot (Cohort Studios) 2010
  • TV SuperStars (Cambridge Studio) 2010
  • Sorcery (The Workshop) 2011
Microsoft (Xbox 360)
  • Kameo: Elements of Power (RARE) 2005
  • Every Party (Game Republic) 2005
  • N3: Ninety-Nine Nights (Q? Entertainment / Phantagram) 2006
  • Viva Pinata (RARE) 2006
  • Blue Dragon (Mistwalker / Artoon) 2006
  • Crackdown (Realtime Worlds) 2007
  • Lost Odyssey (Mistwalker / feelplus) 2007
  • Lips (iNiS) 2008
  • Infinite Undiscovery (tri-Ace) 2008 *published by Square Enix in all regions
  • Ninja Blade (From Software) 2009
  • Kinect _____ (RARE / BigPark / Good Science Studio) 2010 *includes various subseries
  • Kinectimals (Frontier Developments) 2010
  • Milo & Kate (Lionhead Studios) tba
...the Sony list is decently bigger, but it's worth noting that Sony is also titling it's casual brand of family games individually (ie: not Move Sports, Move Party, Move SuperStars, etc), while Nintendo and Microsoft went for a more unified approach.  We could probably count things like Wii Fit or Kinect JoyRide separately if need be.

These lists are meaningless unless they are used as an example of a console's strength. Howver, in that regard, when marking that strength comparitively, we have to add noted games not on competing platforms as well. For example, can anyone truely get a good idea of Microsoft's software power this generation without mentioning L4D or Gears of War. They are multiplats, but they aren't on the Wii or PS3. So again, to be completely accurate, these lists are fine, but if you are truely trying to compare consoles, you have to not only list the games they have, but the big ones they don't, wouldn't you agree.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

jarrod said:
Boutros said:

You forgot Folklore and The Last Guardian for PS3.

Neither are new IPs exactly.  Folklore is based on the same world as Monster Kingdom: Jewel Summoner (PSP) and The Last Guardian is the 3rd game in the ICO series (which also share a world and mythology).  They're not numbered sequels, or direct sequels, but they're still based directly off established IP.   I also wouldn't call Link's Crossbow Training or Halo Wars new IPs.

Ico, Shadow of the Colossus and The Last Guardian are three different IPs.

Folklore is a new IP too.