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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Give Us Back The Old Nintendo (Nowgamer article)

ZenfoldorVGI said:
jarrod said:
Boutros said:

Perhaps Xenoblade.

But The Last Story is not owned by Nintendo.

Er, yes it is.  Nintendo even copyrighted the title in western markets, and every published article on the game lists them under copyright.

 

'New' 1st party owned IPs on consoles this gen (retail only, not getting into downloadables)... 1st party developed titles are bolded too...

 

Nintendo (Wii)

 

  • Wii ____ (Nintendo EAD) 2006 *includes various subseries
  • Endless Ocean (Arika) 2007
  • Captain Rainbow (Skip) 2008 *features established Nintendo IPs within
  • Disaster: Day of Crisis (Monolith Soft) 2008
  • Takt of Magic (Taito) 2009 
  • Zangenki no Reginliev (Sandlot) 2010
  • And Kensaku (Shift) 2010
  • Xenoblade (Monolith Soft) 2010 
  • FlingSmash (Artoon) 2010
  • The Last Story (Mistwalker / tba) 2010
  • Cosmic Walker (Gaia) tba
Sony (PlayStation 3)
  • Resistance: Fall of Man (Insomniac Games) 2006
  • MotorStorm (Evolution Studios) 2006
  • The Eye of Judgement (Japan Studio) 2007
  • Heavenly Sword (Ninja Theory) 2007
  • LAIR (Factor-5) 2007
  • Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (Naughty Dog Software) 2007
  • Afrika (Rhino Studios) 2008 *published by Natsume in NA
  • LittleBig Planet (Media Molecule) 2008 *part of Play Create Share brand
  • White Knight Chronicles (Level-5) 2008
  • Demon's Souls (From Software) 2009 *published by Atlus in NA, NBGI in EU
  • inFamous (Sucker Punch Productions) 2009
  • EyePet (London Studio) 2009
  • M.A.G. Massive Action Game (Zipper Interactive) 2010
  • Modnation Racers (United Front Games) 2010 *part of Play Create Share brand
  • Kung-Fu Rider (Japan Studio) 2010
  • Sports Champions (London Studio) 2010
  • Start the Party (SuperMassive Games) 2010
  • The Fight: Lights Out (London Studio) 2010
  • The Shoot (Cohort Studios) 2010
  • TV SuperStars (Cambridge Studio) 2010
  • Sorcery (The Workshop) 2011
Microsoft (Xbox 360)
  • Kameo: Elements of Power (RARE) 2005
  • Every Party (Game Republic) 2005
  • N3: Ninety-Nine Nights (Q? Entertainment / Phantagram) 2006
  • Viva Pinata (RARE) 2006
  • Blue Dragon (Mistwalker / Artoon) 2006
  • Crackdown (Realtime Worlds) 2007
  • Lost Odyssey (Mistwalker / feelplus) 2007
  • Lips (iNiS) 2008
  • Infinite Undiscovery (tri-Ace) 2008 *published by Square Enix in all regions
  • Ninja Blade (From Software) 2009
  • Kinect _____ (RARE / BigPark / Good Science Studio) 2010 *includes various subseries
  • Kinectimals (Frontier Developments) 2010
  • Milo & Kate (Lionhead Studios) tba
...the Sony list is decently bigger, but it's worth noting that Sony is also titling it's casual brand of family games individually (ie: not Move Sports, Move Party, Move SuperStars, etc), while Nintendo and Microsoft went for a more unified approach.  We could probably count things like Wii Fit or Kinect JoyRide separately if need be.

These lists are meaningless unless they are used as an example of a console's strength. Howver, in that regard, when marking that strength comparitively, we have to add noted games not on competing platforms as well. For example, can anyone truely get a good idea of Microsoft's software power this generation without mentioning L4D or Gears of War. They are multiplats, but they aren't on the Wii or PS3. So again, to be completely accurate, these lists are fine, but if you are truely trying to compare consoles, you have to not only list the games they have, but the big ones they don't, wouldn't you agree.

No he's comparing 1st party new IPs this gen.



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Boutros said:
jarrod said:
Boutros said:

You forgot Folklore and The Last Guardian for PS3.

Neither are new IPs exactly.  Folklore is based on the same world as Monster Kingdom: Jewel Summoner (PSP) and The Last Guardian is the 3rd game in the ICO series (which also share a world and mythology).  They're not numbered sequels, or direct sequels, but they're still based directly off established IP.   I also wouldn't call Link's Crossbow Training or Halo Wars new IPs.

Ico, Shadow of the Colossus and The Last Guardian are three different IPs.

Folklore is a new IP too.

Then Link's Crossbow Training is also a 'new IP'. 

The Team ICO titles share the same general setting, world and history.  Shadow of the Colossus (aka: NICO) and The Last Guardian (aka: TRICO) are still sequels though, they're all puzzlely adventure games, and they're in the same series.  Similar to how Ogre Battle and Tactics Ogre are in the same series and share their IP, even though the games themselves are dramatically different in design and with unique titles. 

Folklore is similarly rooted in the same world and story as Jewel Summoner.  In fact it's working title was Monster Kingdom: Unknown Realms, and it takes place in the overarching timeline Gaia produced for the series.



Boutros said:
jarrod said:
Boutros said:

You forgot Folklore and The Last Guardian for PS3.

Neither are new IPs exactly.  Folklore is based on the same world as Monster Kingdom: Jewel Summoner (PSP) and The Last Guardian is the 3rd game in the ICO series (which also share a world and mythology).  They're not numbered sequels, or direct sequels, but they're still based directly off established IP.   I also wouldn't call Link's Crossbow Training or Halo Wars new IPs.

Ico, Shadow of the Colossus and The Last Guardian are three different IPs.

Folklore is a new IP too.


Same world means same IP.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

Franchise =/= IP?



If you include handheld titles and downloadables, Nintendo also has Electroplankton, Nintendogs, Brain Age, Elite Beat Agents, Band Bros., Rhythm Heaven, Banzai Barber, Rock and Roll Climber, and the whole Art Style series of games.

And those are all actually different.  There is no way to confuse any of those titles with each other.  Whenever I see a huge list of NEW HARDCORE 1ST or 3RD PARTY IPS that somebody has compiled in an attempt to make Nintendo look bad, I just see a list of Mario clones, Zelda clones, Doom clones, GTA clones, and Wii Sports clones.  New names for bald space marines or gritty ex-cops doesn't mean new ideas about gameplay or design.



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Boutros said:

Franchise =/= IP?


It does in the context of these arguments. Otherwise the Yoshi games would be considered a new IP from Super Mario Bros.



A flashy-first game is awesome when it comes out. A great-first game is awesome forever.

Plus, just for the hell of it: Kelly Brook at the 2008 BAFTAs

For fun, here's also the new handheld IPs from Nintendo/Sony this gen....

 

Nintendo (Nintendo DS)

  • Jam with the Band (Nintendo SDD) 2004
  • Polarium (Mitchell) 2004
  • Trace Memory (Cing) 2005
  • electroplankton (indies zero) 2005
  • nintendogs (Nintendo EAD) 2005
  • _______ Training (Nintendo SDD) 2005 *includes various "Training" subseries
  • Big Brain Academy (Nintendo EAD) 2005
  • Osu! Tatake! Ouendan / Elite Beat Agents (iNiS) 2005
  • Clubhouse Games (Agenda) 2005
  • True Swing Golf (T&E Soft) 2005
  • Tabi no Yubisashi Kaiwachou DS (TOSE Software) 2006
  • Mawashite! Touch Panic (Aki) 2006
  • Project Hacker: Origin (RED Entertainment) 2006
  • DS Cooking Navi / Cooking Guide (indies zero) 2006 *rebranded with "Personal Trainer" series in NA
  • Super Control Mecha MG (Sandlot) 2006
  • Master of Illusion (Tenyo / 8ing) 2006
  • Hotel Dusk: Room 215 (Cing) 2007
  • Jet Impulse (Gevo Entertainment) 2007
  • Kurikin: Nano Island Story (Media Kite) 2007
  • Sujin Taisen: Number Battle (Mitchell) 2007
  • Slide Adventure: Magkid (Agenda) 2007
  • ASH: Archaic Sealed Heat (Mistwalker / Racjin) 2007
  • theta (Vitei) 2007
  • Soma Bringer (Monolith Soft) 2008
  • Fossil Fighters (RED Entertainment / M2) 2008
  • Style Savvy (Nintendo SPD / Syn Sophia) 2008
  • Living Rhythm / Walk with Me (Creatures Inc) 2008 *rebranded with "Personal Trainer" series in NA
  • Tomodachi Collection (Nintendo SPD) 2009
  • Art Academy DS (Headstrong Games) 2010

 

Sony (PSP)

  • Kingdom of Paradise (Climax Entertainment) 2005
  • Derby Time (Land Ho!) 2005
  • Fukufuku no Shima (muumuu) 2005
  • Retzel Cross (Sims) 2005
  • The Con (Think & Feel) 2005 *published by Ertain in JP
  • Pursuit Force (bigBig Studios) 2005
  • Talkman (Japan Studio) 2005
  • Monster Kingdom: Jewel Summoner (Gaia) 2006 *published by Atlus in NA
  • Blade Dancer: Lineage of Light (Hit Maker) 2006 *published by NISA in NA and Ignition in EU
  • Jeanne d'Arc (Level-5) 2006
  • LocoRoco (Japan Studio) 2006
  • B-Boy (freesyle games) *released simultaneously on PS2, published by Evolved in NA
  • P-Kara (Japan Studio) 2006
  • Patapon (Pyramid/Japan Studio) 2007
  • What did I do to deserve this, My Lord?! (Acquire/Rideon) *published by NISA in NA
  • echochrome (shift) 2008
  • Juusei to Diamond (Zerner Works) 2009
  • Invisimals (Novarama) 2009
  • Patchwork Heroes (Acquire/Rideon) 2010
  • Trick X Logic: Season 1 (Chunsoft) 2010


KylieDog said:
Viper1 said:
KylieDog said:

These motion controls did not exist years ago, back then Nintendo made new innovitive game content.  That is what the OP article and people who agree with it want, so your attemting to change his argument is if anything acknowledging it is right.

Nintendo is just making old games, sticking on motion controls (literally in some GC port cases) and calling it new.  It isn't new though, they are the same game types we have played for years now.  Nintendo used to be about new content, now they just relying on motion controls to do that which many people do not care about, I didn't buy a Wii for motion controls, I bought it for those great new Nintendo games...only they haven't appeared.

You do realize you're living up to your namesake and chasing your tail, don't you? You're demonizing the very aspect that enables new gameplay styles.

With the N64, new gameplay elements came about because of the new input elements.  Go ahead and make Z-targeting and Mario 64 with the old SNES control pad.  It doesn't work right.  New gameplay is a direct result of the options opened up via new input.   And I think Wii Sports itself showed huge steps forward in new gameplay styles. 

 

The new gameplay elements had nothing to do with new input elements.  The games on playstation that copied Mario 64 managed so without analogue stick support, just because it is called Z-targeting often doesn't mean a Z button is actually needed either, its a lock-on mechanic for action games, doesn't matter what needs be pressed.

 

And many other games this generation from Nintendo have shown new gameplay styles not possible with a standard controller.  And whether you like the New Play Control series on Wii, it does bring new control styles to older games to enhance them (plus you forget that GC was owned by just 21 million people while Wii is already owned by over 70 million people meaning that there are 3 times as many people who never got a chance to play those older GC games that do now).

 

I've not seen anything from Nintendo not possible before when talking gameplay mechanics, Wii Sports for example...bowling games before?  Yep, Golf games before?  Yep, Tennis, Boxing, Baseball?  Yep, no content in that is new aside from the motion controls, THAT is the problem.




This is damn hilarious, Nintendo innovated during the N64 cause of their new content... despite the genres they made already existed... they innovated because of new game play... when all they truly did was take older games like Mario and Zelda and fine tune the controls to work in a 3D space by having a controller with an analog stick and introducing Z-targeting because plenty of PS1 titles tried the same genres before Nintendo did it and failed cause they didn't make the controls work.  

They took a controller and made games work around those controls in amazing ways... it was their biggest innovation of the 64 era... simply making 3D games work lol there were no new genres, there was nothing new about the game play other than how the controller influences and dictates the game play you can deliver.  Platformers where you collected things? Existed before Mario 64, Adventure games where you explore and build up to a big final boss?  Existed before Zelda OoT, making it where your character can run at different speeds, precisely jump while able to control your jump well?  Well that one you can attribute to Mario 64 and the analog stick. Making a character able to fight in a 3D space with accurate control? It was tried with some really terrible auto lock games, but adding a button to help the control of the character AKA Z Targeting, yeah that was Zelda.

I just find it hilarious that just like then, game play was shaped around the controller and using smart design around that control input to make better controlling therefore better playing games, today the Wii controller has a crap load of games shaped around the controls, doing things not done on older controllers, like you couldn't precisely cut an object like you would in Wii Sports Resort, the closest thing will be the new MGS game.  Then you take old genres and make the game play better because the input its shaped around is better, Metroid Prime 1&2 had rather clunky controls while, Metroid Prime 3 created a much better experience because you could move shoot and aim all at the same time... so good in fact people wanted the older titles with that sort of control and game play  

But wait that doesn't count so Nintendo has done nothing!   



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TripleMMM said:

I get that Alby_da_Wolf, but their has to be some sort of balance in these materials, something that it's really lacking as someone else mentioned (everything he said in his POV and nothing else matters). Now as much as I like to see this fellow get the boot, I can't say BURN HIM in the blink of an eye, 'cause I don't know his track record. But if it's something like this now, it would be hard to see him get a chance to re-evaluelate.

Well, it seems that it's back...


Actually they toned down his title, that was totally flamebait and almost insulting, but the article is the usual nostalgic rant, you can find even more like it about PC gaming and how becoming XB 1 & 360 multiplats and, in a lesser measure even PS2 multiplats before them, dumbed down classic hardcore PC series.

The difference is that in PC case it's true and verifiable, while in Wii case it's a different and more subjective matter, not involving easily verifiable facts like dumbed down PC series: I agree that old gamers are important for Nintendo, but they are now less than 1/3 of the total, and even if Wii just reaches 100M (but I'm sure it will largely exceed that), they'll become less than 1/4, so they can't realistically demand Nintendo's exclusive attention. IMVHO, as I wrote, Nintendo must ensure it makes the majority of them happy, because they are a wonderful support for difficult times (and they help Nintendo keep a very unique identity), Nintendo has the resources to do it and their purchases will more than nicely pay the investments (not even taking into account new gamers that become fans of old Ninty series). It's as much obvious that Nintendo shouldn't even bother trying to satisfy crabby people like the writer, it would be a wasted effort, they'd complain whatever Ninty does. But who cares, and in their exaggerations Nintendo could anyway find something that it can really better, the only merit of fussy people is that besides pointless complaints, they are actually good at finding even very small flaws. BTW, when it comes to personal gaming tastes, even a die-hard Ninty fan like Malstrom manages to make a large amount of other fans mad.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW! 
 


ughh.headache.Im just glad lordofthenight answers with the same knowledge i have -sorta- so he covers all i would say.

Bottom of the line is that wii new ips have been present, some are left to be brought overseas, some are just coming up.theres a bunch of third party offerings that have good metascores on the system and theres a lot of fun to have with it.Hell this year alone the overall wii metascore raised thanks to good ,well new received titles , and the reduction in shovelware.1-2 game more , 1 game less, doesnt makes a big difference.

Sales of some 3rd party ips have been a bit sour, but then the same is said of their HD counterparts(NMH i think was used for example?and blamed Nintendo for its sales?shouldnt the HD version bomb be blamed on MS then?Jesus.NMH obviously is not meant to sale big time anywhere and you cant blame the console maker.

take an more fair example, like the well received ,sold and introuduced to west, MH3.Or the respectable perfomance of  TVC.De blob and many other good third party titles, exclusive or not.The fact, is that they were brought to the wii.From the excellent Silent Hill (and best selling) wii version  multiplat game to the excellent exclusive DeBlob.

theres more yearly releases of third party big profile(and scoring) titles at this point in years life than the cube had.I dont see how thats going "backwards".

And now think about this:

Another thing people forget, is that "Oh new IPs".But seriously who needed more new IPS?Look at nintendo situation.They developed new ips back in the 80ths when they had almost none.Over they years they grew with more fans and gigantic support. The claim is mandatory.Nintendo HAS to keep those gazillions of Zelda and Mario fans, they gotta invest TIME AND MONEY satisfying those hungry fans.They gotta spend a lot of resources satisfying that crowd, THAT MAJORITY of 20, 30 or more millions.At the same time, they are allocating some resources to introduce new IPS in 2 systems at once. Is a hard feat, and they are still managing to push it to a decent level(just because it doesnt appeal YOU it doesnt makes it worse, specially due with endless ocean good metascore .

 

Now look at MS or SONY.How many great new ips they had in the 80ths?I mean huge, legendary ones. in the 90ths?in the 2k? 2?1?3? From last gen i just remember 2 really huge first party ips and some memorable ones. GOW and Halo.Few can disagree with me here.There was also Shadow of Colossus and a few hardly succesful titles.But multimillion sellers first party from them? pennys compared to Mario franchises or Zelda.

They HAD (This gen)to build a lot of recognizable franchises to step up and be attractive.While nintendo had to satisfy the already exisiting demand of current titles(they were already attractive for the first party followers). As you can see, nintendo had different responsibility. So you cant blame them for that.

1st party isnt enough, however, at least not without an attractive console. Cube had first party but lacked heavily 3rd(even shovelware helps at some point).The wii had a good selling point, motions and first party.The third party came 2 years later when the console stablished firmly.It never happened for the cube.