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Polygon Interview: Toxic Masculinity In Video Games (Ugh)

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I thought he was going to go on about people being toxic in the rocket league chat in which case I'd be guilty lol



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I don't get what the freakout is here. I've not played the new God of War, but even just based on the promotional material I've seen for the game, it very much appears to me that the father-son dynamic is at its heart. Why is not okay for the director to be interviewed about the point of that dynamic in the game? I mean are we just not supposed to talk about themes in video games? Or is the very idea of a character like Kratos being (apparently) rendered more multi-dimensional than in the past somehow a problem in its own right? I mean what precisely is the triggering mechanism here?

Last edited by Jaicee - on 28 April 2018

loy310 said:
Toxic masculinity from fictional chracters. Lemme guess no one have an issue with Lara Croft masculinity?

Actually, I recall certain gaming channels/columns bringing up Lara Croft's portrayal and 'ludonarrative dissonance' in the 2013 reboot, and I can understand them.  There is something...off in tightly weaving the themes of a young woman's coming-of-age and making her own legacy with going ham on an entire island of murderous cultists.  



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http://www.vgchartz.com/article/442520/mosaic-xone/ (Mosaic (XOne) Review - 7/10)

http://www.vgchartz.com/article/442521/lees-favorite-of-the-decadebrothers-a-tale-of-two-sons/ (Favorite of 2010s Article - Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons)

TranceformerFX said:
Arminillo said:

Keep in mind that is the only question? It's actually starting to make me sick that everyone is coming to conclusions without reading the excerpt, so here it is:

Toxic masculinity isn't anymore of a problem than toxic feminism.

 

You made some very good points but this wasn’t one of them.

 

On Topic, I’m not sure why Polygon felt the need to bash God of War when the game and its fans have never been problematic. Gaming’s biggest social downfall comes from some of the vile twerps playing online shooters, not from barely-covered breasts in RPGs or male-centric adventure games. It’s shocking that it’s 2018 and society still doesn’t grasp how harmless video games are.



Please stop linking that idiot site. Polygon are the SWJ hipsters of gaming. One of the worst gaming sites on the net.



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setsunatenshi said:
Mar1217 said:
*Sigh* Sure, the interviewer used a poor choice of words which lead to this murderous article.

But man, can people stop putting SJW's in the same group as all other femisnist activists ? You're furttering the stigmatisation on everybody else who isn't part of this utter mess.

how about the so called "other feminist activist" start being the first ones to purge this type of cancerous ideas and people propagating them from their core instead of complaining when others do it in their stead?

fucking tired of these whiners trying to dictate how artists are or aren't allowed to express themselves

and this is coming from an actual progressive who believes in the strive for equality of opportunity for all

Problem is that our medias make it so that only a vocal minority gets heard, be it for the worst or the best.

Anywoo, when I meant other feminist activist, I meant other feminist who doesn't fall into the same category. By example, you can't categorize an ecologist-feminist in the same group as  muslim feminist since their ideology they identify to is still different. Talking about diversity of tactics in a same arrangement.

So, asking a black feminist to go and stop this cancerous mess of white/western feminism wouldn't bold well with their ideology.



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Jaicee said:

I don't get what the freakout is here. I've not played the new God of War, but even just based on the promotional material I've seen for the game, it very much appears to me that the father-son dynamic is at its heart. Why is not okay for the director to be interviewed about the point of that dynamic in the game? I mean are we just not supposed to talk about themes in video games? Or is the very idea of a character like Kratos being (apparently) rendered more multi-dimensional than in the past somehow a problem in its own right? I mean what precisely is the triggering mechanism here?

Yeah, I don't get it, either.

All I see is that this Interview suddenly stops right in the middle, but I guess that's rather not the problem.



Gameplay > Graphics

Substance > Style

Art Direction > Realism

Ulternia said:
TranceformerFX said:

Toxic masculinity isn't anymore of a problem than toxic feminism.

 

You made some very good points but this wasn’t one of them.

 

On Topic, I’m not sure why Polygon felt the need to bash God of War when the game and its fans have never been problematic. Gaming’s biggest social downfall comes from some of the vile twerps playing online shooters, not from barely-covered breasts in RPGs or male-centric adventure games. It’s shocking that it’s 2018 and society still doesn’t grasp how harmless video games are.

Did they, though? They asked a question about stereotypical tropes and the director explained how they evolved away from that.

"Kratos’ bad behavior now has meaning and purpose. It serves the plot rather than titillating the player." Note that these lines do not come from the director, but from the editor. How is this bashing?

Thinking about it, I guess I figured it out now.

Q: Playing the game, I kept thinking of the ongoing conversation about how we raise sons to not be utter garbage humans. How do we not intentionally or inadvertently teach them toxic masculine behavior? I’m curious, what conversations were you having in the office while you were putting together this story and the relationship between Kratos and Atreus?

The problematic terms are utter garbage humans and toxic masculine behaviour. But please try to differentiate a bit, will ya? Could it be that the interviewer never inteneded to call all males utter garbage humans, but instead asked the question of how to raise them so that they don't behave like idiots? I mean, this is a parent-child relation after all that is on the base line here, so it makes sense to ask questions about raising children and how video games could emulate a way to make grown ups think about how they treat and talk to their kids. Same goes with the term toxic masulinity. There is masculine behaviour and there is toxic masculine behaviour. I honestly don't believe that the interviewer puts them together, in fact, he intended to separate these terms quite clearly from one another.

Y'all know very well that the demographic for this game is males in their late 20s and 30s. They are likely to have kids, so it makes sense to put such relationships into a blockbuster game like this. We already know this at least since The Last of Us, right?



Gameplay > Graphics

Substance > Style

Art Direction > Realism

"Garbage humans" huh? Now where have I heard that term before...

Oh right - that's the exact same phrase Anita Sarkeesian used to label YouTuber Sargon of Akkad at last year's VidCon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-40spFCqLs

Sounds like Polygon gets their talking points straight from the queen of gaming-world SJWs herself, who also was kind enough to bestow upon us the phrase "toxic masculinity in gaming" and other such nonsense.



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.

Game journalist are dead; they don't have to be your audience anymore.