Forums - General Discussion - The Bible verse discussion thread

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After much debate over matters of faith and secularism, some friends and I have come to the conclusion that it might be best to start a thread as a place to discuss biblical ideas so as to learn about Judeo-Christian doctrine, and reduce off-topic debates on scripture and reduce the amount of learning that needs to be done during controversial debates when it comes to things of the bible.

Without further ado, I commence this activity!

1st topic on hand, does God condone Rape, and does the mosaic law unjustly deal with matters of rape?

A quote from Mr. Wonktonodi to begin the debate:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

    If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

That is a law of marriage and rape. How moral is it to force a rape victim to marry her rapist? Is there a point where this is invalidated latter?

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

  If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

Pretty harsh to the rape victim here. Seems the only difference though for the rapist is who they rape. Rape a single vigin and you owe 50 silver pieces and get a wife. Rape a married woman and be put to death.

Deuteronomy 21:10-14

"When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house.  But before she may live there, she must shave her head and pare her nails and lay aside her captive's garb.  After she has mourned her father and mother for a full month, you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife.  However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it; but you shall not sell her or enslave her, since she was married to you under compulsion."

Deuteronomy 21:10-14

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are.  If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again.  But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her.  And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter.  If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife.  If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.

Fire away :3 (not litterally, just have fun! :D)



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A lot of this stuff is extremely old fashioned, so I really don't know what to say...

But I guess he doesn't? Right?



Carl is a Piplup hater and deserves to be punished eternally.

I'm sorry to say this, but this kind of parts where rape victims are punished is exactly why I can't take anything in the Bible seriously. The Bible is God's words, and the whole idea of some of its parts being redundant does not make any sense to me. God is supposed to be flawless, after all.

Would God give us permission to ignore "some" of what he says just because we don't agree with it? (like the parts where being gay is considered a disgraceful sin?) I don't think so. I think God would want us to pay attention to every single word in the Bible, and to act accordingly.


(I fully trust you to come up with a good response :)



^^I was gonna pretty much say what the future Newcomer of the year winner, THE1 said.

OT: I cant believe there was a game for the NES called bible adventures!



man-bear-pig said:

^^I was gonna pretty much say what the future Newcomer of the year winner, THE1 said.

OT: I cant believe there was a game for the NES called bible adventures!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkNvQYiM6bw

 

 

Also tagging this thread, though not gonna join in the debate ;)



    

Basil's YouTube Channel


                    

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The Book of Deuteronomy is belived to be based on Moses' preachings, but was compiled during the rule of Kink Josiah. See the following from Wikipedia.

King Josiah ordered the High Priest Hilkiah to use the tax money which had been collected over the years to renovate the temple. It was during this time that Hilkiah discovered the Book of the Law. While Hilkiah was clearing the treasure room of the Temple [10] he found a scroll described as "the book of the Law" [11] or as "the book of the law of Yahweh by the hand of Moses".[10] The phrase "the book of the Torah" (ספר התורה) in 2 Kings 22:8 is identical to the phrase used in Joshua 1:8 and 8:34 to describe the sacred writings that Joshua had received from Moses. The book is not identified in the text as the Torah and many scholars believe this was either a copy of the Book of Deuteronomy or a text that became a part of Deuteronomy as we have it per De Wette's suggestion in 1805.

Hilkiah brought this scroll to Josiah's attention, and the king ordered it read to a crowd in Jerusalem. He is praised for this piety by the prophetess Huldah, who made the prophecy that all involved would die without having to see God's judgment on Judah for the sins they had committed in prior generations.[12][13]

Josiah encouraged the exclusive worship of Jehovah and outlawed all other forms of worship.2 Kings 23 According to the biblical account, Josiah destroyed the living quarters for male cult prostitutes which were in the Temple,[14] and also destroyed pagan objects related to the worship of Baal or Asherah, "and all the hosts of the heavens". Josiah had living pagan priests executed and even had the bones of the dead priests of Bethel exhumed from their graves and burned on their altars, which was viewed as an extreme act of desecration. Josiah also reinstituted the Passover celebrations, such magnitude of which the Biblical account states had not been observed since before the days of the judges. (2 Kings 23:21-23)

According to 1 Kings 13:1-3 an unnamed "man of God" Iddo had prophesied to King Jeroboam of Israel, approximately three hundred years earlier, that "a son named Josiah will be born to the house of David" and that he would destroy the altar at Bethel. And the only exception to this destruction was for the grave of an unnamed prophet he found in Bethel (2 Kings 23:15-19), who had foretold that these religious sites Jeroboam erected would one day be destroyed (see 1 Kings 13). Josiah ordered the double grave of the "man of God" and of the Bethel prophet to be let alone as these prophecies had come true.

According to the later account in 2 Chronicles, Josiah even destroyed altars and images of pagan deities in cities of the tribes of Manasseh, Ephraim, "and Simeon, as far as Naphtali" (2 Chronicles 34:6-7), which were outside of his kingdom, Judah, and returned the Ark of the Covenant to the Temple.[15]





Also Deuteronomy 14:8 Says

The pig is also unclean; although it has a split hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.


These were laws written by man at the time. God says to follow the laws of the land. Jesus has only a couple of laws “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself”



I like the story about the she-bear.



 Been away for a bit, but sneaking back in.

Gaming on: PS4, PC, 3DS. Got a Switch! Mainly to play Smash

mysticwolf said:
I like the story about the she-bear.


Ah yes the she-bears.

2 Kings 2:23-24

23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

Looking at the culture and tradtions of the time, the comment "Go on up, you baldhead!" based on many interpritations is a phyisical threat that would mean "You should die, you leper". Imagine 42 guys surrounded you and threatened your death?



NintendoPie said:
A lot of this stuff is extremely old fashioned, so I really don't know what to say...

But I guess he doesn't? Right?

I wouldn't think so either. But, I am taking time to mull over the passages.

For this one:

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

    If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

I was thinking something this morning. This must be evidence that Moses inspired by the spirit of God prioritized sexual purity over the psychological trauma of rape in a victim, and the horror of facing a rapist for life, as a husband. It's a tough pill to swallow, but I am taking the time to think about it.

It would also point to the idea that a rapist is a person, and a person no matter their crimes is worthy of marriage?

These are thoughts so please do not judge me for expressing them, I'm just thinking out load.