Thats how government works, bro. This isn't a dictatorship. Especially when you don't have Congress, you need to negotiate to get people on board. Depending on where your policies lie, often that means pivoting towards the center. The exact same thing would happen under a Bernie presidency, assuming he actually got anything passed.

As for the rest, it is up to the voters and our representatives to hold him accountable. Again, if the progressive wing of the party is as active and as powerful as they are at their best, Biden and the party will be forced to the left. If the progressive wing of the party doesn't fucking show, then they aren't going to be around to have a voice at the table.

Watching Biden speak, i find it so difficult to understand why people would vote for him.

I agree that there are negatives to such a position, but there are also positives, especially when you don't like what an individual has previously stood for. Like I was saying, if you are a Bernie or Bust voter, you can do a lot more good by staying engaged and working to elect Biden and push him to the left, than disengaging and letting Trump have another four years.

At this point it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about the Primary. It's as good as in the past. We could complain about those damned Biden fans all day, but it won't change anything. Biden is the candidate. You ask about the easier path, but have you seen the odds for Bernie? He doesn't have a path anymore. It isn't easy to get leftist policies in the White House when he has already lost. So how do we move forward from here?

Again, progressives showing up is a good start. You complain that Biden isn't moving to the left anymore, but I can only assume you haven't really been paying attention. In the debate yesterday, Biden pledged to not deport anyone who hasn't been convicted of a felony. That is a pretty big step to the left. And before the debate (and as discussed during the debate), Biden just supported Warren's bankruptcy bill. Another step to the left.

Does that mean Biden is suddenly going to support M4A? Of course not, but what Bernie supporters often seem to miss, is that this isn't a binary choice. It isn't either M4A or the destruction of life as we know it. Biden's healthcare plan is already pretty far left compared to what we've been seeing for the past couple decades. If this was 2015, we would be saying that this was a pretty huge jump. The reason that happened is largely because Bernie succeeded in pushing the party. The fact that this is where the center lies shows just how impactful progressives can be even when they aren't holding the presidency.

And again, the input of the people doesn't stop as soon as someone gets elected, unless the people let it. However, if Biden doesn't get elected we are effectively preventing ourselves from being able to influence the politics of this country for four more years.

Alright, I think I jumped to the wrong conclusion, because what now seems to be the right conclusion just doesn't make any sense to me. To make sure we are on the same page, are you saying that Biden's steps to the left yesterday are the last steps that he is going to take? If so, you are going to have to defend that perspective.

When the most recent data we have shows Biden basically treating Bernie's policies the same way he has in every debate and simultaneously moving to the left, I don't understand why you would make the assumption that this means that he will not move any further left. You may be right, but I don't think that is what the data shows.

The funny thing about this debate is that had Sanders maintained his lead and won the nomination, any calls for him to move to the center or show moderation would have been completely shunned, dismissed and treated with outright hostility.

First of all, I again disagree with the premise that there is no way to influence a politician after election. That is false, especially when both reelection and midterms are both a thing.

Second, I don't know what it is about everyone suddenly forgetting how the country has been for decades, but Biden's entire platform is pretty dang far to the left compared to virtually every president ever. While Biden is unlikely to be the furthest left of all the democrats, acting like his platform is basically a Republican platform is blatantly false. If his platform were put in place, the country would move significantly to the left.

But even assuming that you were 100% right and he is just a status quo candidate, thats fine. Compared to Trump, I would take that any day. Compared to a border wall and this disaster of a pandemic response and a 7-2 conservative majority in the Supreme Court? Give me the democratic status quo! I will happily accept! There is no loss here. If you vote for Biden in the general, the scenario that all the Bernie or Bust guys seem to fear, is still a win.

Tomorrow should all but seal the deal for Biden tomorrow. Bernie performed even worse on his second run. I thought he was he most popular politician in the country. What happened?

I was more talking about the general attitude of people I have spoken to, not any specific thing that you said. I apologize for the imprecise wording, but this is the argument I am making, even if it isn't the one you are directly engaging with. I am speaking generally to the Bernie or Bust people, and speaking about the arguments they are bringing up. You could consider it hyperbole for yourself in particular, but I believe the point still applies, and it isn't hard to find this type of opinion from this crowd.

America