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Forums - Politics Discussion - Why can't Dems presidential hopefuls pull this much people for any of their rallys? <20,000+

gamingsoul said:
Socialism is wonderful, if every country in the world was socialist every person in the world would have free health care , education, housing , etc. Geez how come nobody though of this before ...

Over half the World is doing free healthcare and education - just not the US. And as for the housing, there's subsidized housing for the poor in most countries, which brings the prices down a lot - sometimes all the way down to free, though with limitations, of course. In Germany for instance, You can get housing for free as an Hartz IV recipient - you just don't get to choose and the size is limited. And they even replace furniture and basic appliances if they break. But yeah, free housing.

Just because those things ain't in the US doesn't mean nobody thought of it or isn't implemented elsewhere. You just presented to everybody the very narrow worldview and very limited knowledge of things outside of the US of yours. If you knew more about what's going on elsewhere and how things are running abroad, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't even dream typing anything like that again.



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eva01beserk said:
MrWayne said:

You probably meant "state appropriation of all businesses", the word "all" is very important because almost all capitalist economies have some state owned businesses. The second sentence is also wrong, "state appropriation of all businesses" is the very first step in socialism and not a last resort, there is no socialism without the public ownership ( through the state or Worker cooperatives) of almost all businesses.

So Bernie missing this core characteristic of socialism in his policies is very important.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-election-nationalizations/factbox-venezuelas-nationalizations-under-chavez-idUSBRE89701X20121008 

Venezuela did not started by nationalizing all the industry, they did  some at a time, and at the beginning none where taken over. When ever they needed more money cuz they destroyed the first buisnes they took over, they move on to the next one. The latest things they took over was personal homes to turn a area into a turist atraction.

The same will be with berni and the rest of the democrats runing on socialism. When its ovbious that they cant pay for it, another sector will suffer and so on and so on, just like venezuela.

So Venezuela didn't immediately went socialist the moment Chavez was elected, I got it. 

Look I'm not a Socialist and I don't want to defend Socialism nor Maduro and Chavez, they are awful but it's incredibly dishonest fear mongering to say the "far left" democratic candidates will turn the US into a failed socialist country like Venezuela. Bernie, Warren and co have very moderate policies which have been in force in other countries for decades without turning those countries into "shithole countries".

Hell Germany has a form of universal healthcare since 1883 and I'm unaware that Germany is known for ruining its economy or that Germans are known to be lazy.



Bofferbrauer2 said:
gamingsoul said:
Guys if you think Europe is so wonderful why don’t you live there? Is not that hard just find a job and you can stay as long as you want, escape from heartless America and enjoy your social utopia.
I am not going to explain why I don’t like Europe, you can do some research on your own all I can say is that I have been there a few times.
Why is everyone who is right wing, evil, nut job , crazy, fanatic?

I was the guy asking you, and I'm from Europe (Luxembourg, to be precise). So no need for me to escape there, I'm already there.

So, again, care to explain why? i'm pretty sure all the Europeans here (and there's a lot of 'em) would love to know what's your problem with Europe.

Isn't it obvious? Europe is a socialist hellhole, didn't you know! And that's because... err... *leaf through pages*... I have it somewhere here... erm... ah right: because Venezuela!!! Because in venezuela people starve and in europe... well, they don't, but I am sure they start starving every second now, because socialism!!!!! So it is a total valid comparison and all!!!!!!! That's why nobody needs this communist health care, real man don't get sick anyway!!!!!!!! And who the hell needs education, it gives people only the wrong ideas!



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MrWayne said:
eva01beserk said:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-venezuela-election-nationalizations/factbox-venezuelas-nationalizations-under-chavez-idUSBRE89701X20121008 

Venezuela did not started by nationalizing all the industry, they did  some at a time, and at the beginning none where taken over. When ever they needed more money cuz they destroyed the first buisnes they took over, they move on to the next one. The latest things they took over was personal homes to turn a area into a turist atraction.

The same will be with berni and the rest of the democrats runing on socialism. When its ovbious that they cant pay for it, another sector will suffer and so on and so on, just like venezuela.

So Venezuela didn't immediately went socialist the moment Chavez was elected, I got it. 

Look I'm not a Socialist and I don't want to defend Socialism nor Maduro and Chavez, they are awful but it's incredibly dishonest fear mongering to say the "far left" democratic candidates will turn the US into a failed socialist country like Venezuela. Bernie, Warren and co have very moderate policies which have been in force in other countries for decades without turning those countries into "shithole countries".

Hell Germany has a form of universal healthcare since 1883 and I'm unaware that Germany is known for ruining its economy or that Germans are known to be lazy.

Well, without universal health care Hitler might have gotten sick and died before he took over power, so health care is bad.



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eva01beserk said:
Torillian said:

California leads in mass shootings when you don't account for population. Which is one of the stupidest ways to compare different areas. If I told you China had 8 mass shooting in 2018 and Belgium had 7 would you really just say "welp that's interesting, China had the most mass shootings, they need to get their shit together" and move on with your day?

From your article: "With another mass shooting in California, number 19 since 1984, the state leads the nation in most deaths from these kinds of violent killings—but only because it is by far the most populous state."

It's no. 20 in economic opportunity, the reason opportunity in general is so low is because of affordability. https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/california

So were gona have to put buts and exceptions then? ok. then illegal immigrants are the most violent and do the most crimes if you account for per capita  do you agree with that?

Again, with the affordability, with california leading the way in social programs, how is affordability the worst than any other state?

how are you going to account for the expected increase in anything when more people are somewhere other than using a per capita value? If I ask you about the expected rate of a chemical reaction and you try to use raw amount of material instead of concentration you'll just be wrong, it's not a matter of "buts and exceptions" it's just how data is analyzed correctly or not. 



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Mnementh said:
MrWayne said:

So Venezuela didn't immediately went socialist the moment Chavez was elected, I got it. 

Look I'm not a Socialist and I don't want to defend Socialism nor Maduro and Chavez, they are awful but it's incredibly dishonest fear mongering to say the "far left" democratic candidates will turn the US into a failed socialist country like Venezuela. Bernie, Warren and co have very moderate policies which have been in force in other countries for decades without turning those countries into "shithole countries".

Hell Germany has a form of universal healthcare since 1883 and I'm unaware that Germany is known for ruining its economy or that Germans are known to be lazy.

Well, without universal health care Hitler might have gotten sick and died before he took over power, so health care is bad.

Hitler was an immigration problem, after all he was austrian not german.



MrWayne said:
Mnementh said:

Well, without universal health care Hitler might have gotten sick and died before he took over power, so health care is bad.

Hitler was an immigration problem, after all he was austrian not german.

As Austria copies everything from us germans, they introduced universal health care in 1889.



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Mnementh said:
MrWayne said:

Hitler was an immigration problem, after all he was austrian not german.

As Austria copies everything from us germans, they introduced universal health care in 1889.

They all copied from us, Germany was the very first country to introduced universal health care



the-pi-guy said:
Azuren said:

The real question is why do the crime rates of native-born citizens matter in a discussion about immigrant crime rates? What immigration policies will prevent native-born citizens from committing crime?

Because the matter isn't about preventing crime.  The point of the post above isn't that native born citizens commit more crime, and that there should be a policy to handle it.  

The point of the post above is to point out that illegal immigrants are not inherently more violent than regular citizens.  The point is that illegal immigrants are not the violent monsters who are raping, murdering and pillaging left and right that some are trying to claim they are.  

Except they do still bring crime at a much higher rate than legal immigrants, crime that would happen much less if immigration policies were addressed and improved. The point made by those discussing crime committed by illegal immigrants does include the disingenuous claims that they commit crime at a higher rate than citizens, but the point that people who are acting in good faith would point out is much of this is crime wouldn't even be in the country in the first place if there was better border security.



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PortisheadBiscuit said:
Immersiveunreality said:

Mocking the left does not make someone automatically rightsided.

It doesn't NOT mean it either...

You are free to not trust others on what they say and assume about that ofcourse,i do think it is important to be critical on everything without fearing those assumptions.

If evaberserk tells us she/he is center while she/he never said something that could be considered rightsided i find it just more logical to just believe that till there is other info aviable that strongly says otherwise and in my opinion such info is currently nonexistent.

Last edited by Immersiveunreality - on 25 June 2019