It sounds like you should take your own recommendation since other's showed your error in the subsequent posts ... 

A union does not guarantee peace and the league of nations was one such passive union that failed to prevent WWII but there are countless other examples such as the Soviet Union or the Federal Republic of Central America which devloved into internal conflict ... 

There's nothing stopping EU from devolving into internal conflict when it has to deal with the volatity of soveriegn nations who could declare war on any EU member states at any second ... 

Wow, you definitely have no solution, the level of ignorance and the number of alternative facts you use is just downright embarrassing, specially with those attacks against me and my country for what's happening in Catalonia even when me (and the majority of Spaniards) want Catalonia to have its legal referendum and I have condemened the Government of Spain multiple times for how badly has handled this, which, by the way, its a Government ruled by a political party with less than 8m votes in a country with 46m people, yet you want to think the whole of Spain agrees with them.

You have a child mentality, evil vs good, black vs white, you see all of this like a medieval fantasy and are unable to see the complexity inside, you just want to see a country of bad people opressing a country of poor good people cause that's easy enough for you to understand. 

Your coment about the Basc Country already showcases a mindblowing level of ignorance, we killed Bascs? What the fuck are you talking about? Franco? Are you suggesting what Franco did was our fault? You should be deeply ashamed of saying such thing.

You say the fact that independence is illegal in our Constitution (a Constitution approved by 90% of Catalonia, highest level of approval in any comunity of Spain) shows how imperialist and bully Spain is, meanwhile in your own country all independentist political parties are considered illegal; PdCat, Esquerra Unida, CUP,  all the politic parties that made Catalonia declare independence would have been banned long time ago there, what does that says about Portugal then? lol

No, Catalonia never was an Independent kingdom, it was only a bunch of counties (not countries) inside the Kingdom of Aragon, this is a fact, there is no debate outside Catalonia about this, neither in Spain neither in Europe.

Yes is partly a money issue, it always was, Catalan independentism was at 15% in the 90´s when Spanish economy was great, in the moment the economy started going down the independetism went up to almost 50%, if you want to believe there is no correlation there then you are just painfully naive.

You keep suggesting if Catalonia goes away then Spain would start to fall into little pieces, yet another showcase of how much out of reality you are, there is not a single comunity of Spain outside Catalonia and Basque Country with strong independentist feelings, even Galicia, which was once a kingdom, has its own language and feels closer in culture to Portugal than to the rest of Spain, still has less than 5% of independentist population and is one of the comunities of Spain that votes PP the most, so your idea that only Castille would remain is as ridiculous as it can be, in the worst case scenario if Catalonia goes away only Basque Country (which already has more economic autonomy than any other region) may want to follow them, none of the other 15 would want to go, but keep living in your fantasy world where Castilians still wants to conquer you.

The only thing i'm embarrassed of is to share a forum space with someone so close minded.

But it is pointless as you keep passing your imperialist thumb over other people's wills or make the poor case that counties are very different from kingdoms. Yeah dude, it's cause they started to call their ruler king. That is the difference. Portugal was a county as well. Go figure. It's not a king that makes a country, it's the people.

So, what is your point? You want the whole of Aragon to secede? It is obvious that the will for independence is in the heart of it. What sort of lame case are you making? Honestly... yeah as far as i can say, the surrounding regions should have the right to choose wether to belong to Catalunya or Spain. But yeah... we know how you will react to that.

I don't know if Spain will fall to pieces, but if given the choice i do think that more regions will secede. But the case of Spain falling to pieces was given by other apologists here, not me as an excuse as to Catalans wanting independence was a bad thing.

Also lol? Why do you think i fear Castillians? You do know they tried and got their asses kicked? Twice. So yeah... nice logic.

If by errors you mean having taken my words out of context, then sure, whatever pal. Other than that there are no errors there. I'd say most people discussing in this thread understand it but not everyone, it seems...

As for guaranteeing peace, NOTHING could ever guarantee peace as war and peace are a CHOICE people do. I'm only saying a peaceful union EU style has brought peace for the past 60 years and that is a fact and if you want to go on a new round of arguing with facts, I'm out cause all has been said about it and if you still don't get it or don't want to get it, further argument of said facts won't change anything.

As for examples of unions you are quoting stuff like the Soviet Union? Just like whoever tried to compare the Roman empire's union with the EU, comparing the Soviet union which AGAIN is a forced up, dictatorial union, with the EU is ludicrous and if after everything that has been discussed in this thread you or anyone else STILL come up with such examples, it means you still don't get it. So how me repeating it all again will change that?

And that last part of your comment, wow man you are quite something. So what can I say: Go ahead and choose division which has proven in the past to have brought instability and war, instead of this EU that has since inception brought stability and peace and break up the EU because, and I quote "Sovereign nations could declare war on any EU member states ANY SECOND"

Now if you'll excuse me I need to go hide myself in a bunker cause Germany could attack Belgium ANY SECOND or France, or Italy or any other EU country and I cannot blame them attacking cause the UNION of European countries is something that OBVIOUSLY is a good reason for those countries to attack mine. Oh God, if only we would have had the wisdom to keep countries divided 60 years ago...

So here is a message to everyone: If you guys have a new angle or new ideas to bring to this debate I'll be happy to continue discussing but I'll just not respond to further comments like this one cause, what's the point to repeat what has already been said, right?

County: "A county is a geographical region of a country used for administrative or other purposes"

A geographical region of a country/kingdom is not equivalent to a country or a kingdom, can you understand that or is too much for you? Catalonia was never independent, it was always a region of Aragon and Aragon decided to unite with Castille, they didn't conquered Catalonia, stop being so ignorant.

The surrounded regions don't want to go away; Valencia, Balearic Islands and Aragon want to stay and they were never part of Catalonia so it just wouldn't make any sense to vote for that. Many Catalans want us Valencians to go with them and I personally apreciate the offer, I do think Valencia and Catalonia could do a good and strong country together, the problem is they want us to be a part of Catalonia, but Valencia was never a part of Catalonia, so people here takes the offering as an attempt to fagocitate us and our culture, something that has already been happening in some cultural subjects btw, Catalonia has a loooong history of claiming things that doesn't really belong to them but to other regions, shocking right? I know you want to believe Catalonia is perfect and inmaculated but you are so far from reality as always, did you know Primo Rivera dictatorship in Spain was the fault of Catalonia? Even they recognize that, they got him into power, do you know one of the biggest showcase of violence in recent Spain ocurred in Catalonia 6 years ago when the Catalan police (instructed by the catalan goverment obviously) brutally beated (and shot) a bunch of peaceful manifestants that were protesting against the government? Watch it yourself but don't cry when you discover they aren't nearly as innocent as you believe.

Your philosophy that old kingdoms must try to become independent is deeply stupid, following that "logic" (if you can call it logic) most of Europe would break into little pieces which is no benefitial for anyone, it makes no fucking sense to make decisions based on what happened 600 years ago.

Oh and I dIdn't told you fear the Castilians, but clearly your hate comes from the fact that the country tried to conquer yours centuries ago, which is pathetic, that's like hating Germany now cause they were Nazis at some point in time, you even still calling spaniards "Castilians" lol even to people like me that comes from the Aragon Kingdom. As I said, you live in a medieval fantasy.

Now Flemish Assembly voted to reject Catalonia independence, only independistas friends far-right Vlaams Belang voting yes.

I really don't get why the independistas get as much a pass as they do from so-called left leaning sector, just because they pose as
opposed to Franco/PP, when they themselves are as much nationalists, never mind Omnium founders linked to regime (e.g. Millet)
who took refuge in fascist Italy until tide of war turned enough that they could safely support the fascists war vs the Republic.
These inane medieval kingdom fantasies are classic nationalist distraction from real political questions facing normal people.
Their cartoon history politics only goes as far as what supports their nationalist project, happy to claim Valencia, Baleares
as part of "Catalan nation" yet curiously ignore their opinion when it comes to their staged nationalist referendums,
making totalitarian claim to speak for will of "the people" despite failing to manage convincing majority of just Catalonia region.
Oh... but now Valencians and Aragones are imperialist oppressors of the Castillian centralist supremacy. (along with Galicians)

Here in spain the left was against this independentist process too, even Podemos and Izquierda Unida (far left) said they didn't supported the referendum and the declaration of independence, PSOE not only that but also was in favour of the harsh Article 155 that PP applied. However in the rest of Europe this independent process is perceived as a leftist thing, when that's ridiculous, the president of Catalonia (Puigdemont) belongs to right-wing political party, but people see what they want to see.

To me, saying "let's do it in legal referendum sometime in future" is not a policy expressing opposition to nationalist separatism.
Maybe that's a nice democratic approach, but it's still pandering to their agenda, not expressly opposing it's fundamental concept.
It's still herded between two brands of nationalism, why support that but not demand left agenda referendums or assemblies? 
I' m not even aware of any specific proposals apart from vague invocation of 'referendo pactado' which doesn't say much in itself.

I don't know, it's a difficult situation, what with the significant of people who are somehow affiliated to nationalist project.

At least the new national football jersey is nice.

Very polemic jersey but yeah I like it too.

Well in a democracy you cannot just ignore the voice of the people, something PP always does, if 2milion Catalans want to go and the majority wants to have a chance to vote, then eventually you have to do something about it, so I agree with the left there, but just as them, I do not agree with this process because it was a fucking antidemocratic joke, yet many are only seeing what Spain did wrong while ignoring that Catalonia just made a Coup D´Etat following the voice of a minority and for purely egotistical and nationalistic reasons. I'm sure in the right conditions they would vote to stay, but after all the manipulation of the Government of catalonia and after all the violence of the government of Spain, now I'm not sure anymore.

LOL, keep up your denial ... 

Also, the US used to be a passive union like the EU but look what happened so you're wrong no matter what example you use ... (just one counterexample is enough to derail your argument) 

Actually, the soviet union was very much a union in the vein of EU where once independent republics such as the Russian SFSR, Transcaucasian SFSR, Ukranian SSR and the Byelorussian SSR approved a treaty to the creation of the soviet union so you're dead wrong again ... 

Whether the union is passive (US) or aggressive (Roman Empire), it makes no difference in the prevention of conflicts ... 

And yeah you should be worried about those bigger EU members pushing over Belgium cause there's no reason to believe that they won't go to war even in a union like EU so how cute of you to never consider that possibility ...