It shows the bully, and where that rotten mindset comes from.

Well yes that changed when Hitler took power but it is still democracy that brought Hitler to power and that is my point. Democracy does not intrinsically mean peace as proven by Hitler's democratic access to power. Whereas a union like the EU does mean peace. There is yet to be a war inside the EU proving me wrong.

Also union is enforced in the same way a split of the EU would be enforced on people. If any decision out there you consider enforcing on people then any decision is enforced including division. I am glad with the EU, why should Brexit or Catalans enforce a division I do not wish for?

So if we agree ANY decision is enforced on people then we are in a deadlock. If we agree that a deadlock means no more decisions which in turns means anarchy, then you must agree that decisions MUST be taken, decisions that will in a way be enforced on someone cause there is always someone out there that will not agree to the decisions taken, no matter what the decision is.

So if enforcing is unavoidable and necessary for progress to continue, why not enforce the right decision? Yes I mean union. And before you say why union over division, I'll say again what I said a million times before: Because division has PROVEN time and again in the past history to have brought wars and hatred and invasions and instability in general. Union on the other hand has brought stability and peace inside the EU.

So you're willing to risk division with all the possible consequences of war over union with all the peace and stability it has brought in the past 60 years for what? The right to call some stretch of land independent? What is that going to bring for you, what is that going to change in your life? Aren't you going to have to still get a job to pay your bills? Are people's real problems of their every day lives be different in an independent small patch of land? Nope, you still will have the same problems and issues to deal with everyday, how to put food on the table, how to put clothes on your children etc. On the other hand you will lose a lot. You will lose the right to freely move as you please in that much bigger space called the EU without a passport, you are going to find yourself walled in, within the borders of your newly independent state, how is that progress for you or for your children?

Like I said before, you are not seeing the big picture and yes we are definitely agreeing... on disagreeing.

We live in a country that imprisioned, the same day, some rappers for rapping, and some elected poltician for doing polytics. The weird thing would be not to be frustrated with the disgrace that this country is. We're reverting into fascism.

Hitler most certainly did not come into power democratically so the basis for your argument is already undermined in that regard ... 

There's also no precedent that a union brings peace like we see with the roman empire or the US civil war ... 

Norway has participated in 8 wars since 1990. Switzerland has participated in 1.

You should be since triggering article 155 is as almost as bad as the Ermachtigungsgesetz of 1933 during the Weimar Republic ... 

That article wasn't even meant to be applied, it was kind of a deterrent. But they applied it anyway, and some people in this country celebrate it. I even heard some people suggesting that they should take the tanks into Catalonia to make them fear. My guess is that we don't quite went over the Franco dictatorship at all, it's kind of in the collective subconscious.

Sad to see imperialism being prioritised over democracy and I hope they like their new "empire" ... 

If people in this thread want to argue that separatism or nationalism is barbaric then expansionism is equally as if not more so than the former because conquest is an act only a nation would think of before WWII ... 

So, every federative piece of a nation that tries to let go of the mainland is a hero revolutionary? I disagree, the US has 50 states, Brazil has 27, should they become 77 nations instead of 2?
I agree that it is a case by case issue, but I do not support Catalunia in this issue, they belong to Spain.

No it doesn't, it shows that you live completely out of reality, just like when you said Catalan politicians went to Belgium to avoid being killed by the Government of Spain lol or when you said Spain is not gonna last cause their kingdoms wants to go despite the fact that only 2 comunities out of 17 have an independentist spirit and none of them were never an independent kingdom by their own, only regions of kingdoms that are now fully integrated into the concept of Spain. You live in a movie, one that takes place 600 years ago.