Quantcast
German election tomorrow

Forums - Politics Discussion - German election tomorrow

Who do your want to win?

CDU/CSU 31 10.69%
 
SPD 23 7.93%
 
Left 30 10.34%
 
Greens 12 4.14%
 
FDP 17 5.86%
 
AfD 59 20.34%
 
another one of the parties on ballot 6 2.07%
 
a party not on ballot 6 2.07%
 
no one 17 5.86%
 
see results 89 30.69%
 
Total:290
StarOcean said:
vivster said:

I think a domestic war would just exacerbate the problem. Put the US even more in its favorite victim role and "prove" all those right wing fear mongers right.

What would be a lot more effective would be a complete economic collapse.

It would make them even more dependant of foreign aid, weakening the national ego.
Gun violence may increase which may prompt stricter enforcement of gun control.
It would make them spend less on defense.
It would make many more people dependant on welfare, expanding social programs.
Lower overall income would make the government crack down on shady financial institutions and the out of control pharma industry.
Government would maybe have some motivation for tax reform and cracking down on tax evaders.

That's all hypothetical of course but it sounds nice. The US has mostly made policy from a position of strength and rarely out of weakness, which explains why there are so few policies that help the weak or create safenets in case of sudden weakness.

Hmm.. so you believe something like a larger recession would benefit the country then?

I believe that too yes. But it would only help long-term. Short term the people obviously would suffer. But I don't know which other way to go. I had high hopes in Obama for a real change, but had to realize it is not possible. Obama clearly had good intentions, but couldn't change the country. So I don't think elections can save the US.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019

Predictions: Switch / Switch vs. XB1 in the US / Three Houses first quarter

Around the Network
vivster said:
Mnementh said:

No, democracy is a choice of options (in case of a parliament people that go into the parliament), of which you choose the one which you agree the most with. If a candidate is changing his/her opinion it is a moving target. What consequence has my vote if the candidate changes all the time? And if all candidates all always changing, my vote is irrelevant, as I cannot predict which outcome it produces.

That is a normal risk in democracy as it's still based on humans. I'd rather have a more flexible democracy than a leader that clings to campaign promises despite changing circumstances.

Voting is only every 4 years. It's impractical to hold the same opinions as you had 4 years ago despite things changing. That's just stubborn and stupid. If it's a justified change of heart it's absolutely fine and you are free to vote for someone else next election. Merkel lost a good portion of her voters but the majority is still fine even with changing positions when it's necessary and founded.

Yeah, that's why I want direct democracy. Parliament should make in legislation in most cases, but if the people disagree or want a legislation that the parliament refuses they can put it to a vote. It's working in Switzerland.



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019

Predictions: Switch / Switch vs. XB1 in the US / Three Houses first quarter

vivster said:
Mnementh said:

With the myth of the gun in the US it is special somewhat. Recently I watched the korean show Stranger/Forest of Secrets on Netflix. It is a crime-show featuring police and prosecutors. Only half-through as one role aquires a gun I realized I saw no gun the whole time. One time the policewomen draws a taser, but isn't shooting it. The gun ends also unused. And that's it in 16 episodes. Multiple murders, chasing of suspects, but no shooting. This made me realize how much we are used to seeing guns and shootings in such shows - if they come from the US.

It's the difference of molding a nation out of war or out of peace.

Weren't both nations molded out of war?



3DS-FC: 4511-1768-7903 (Mii-Name: Mnementh), Nintendo-Network-ID: Mnementh, Switch: SW-7706-3819-9381 (Mnementh)

my greatest games: 2017, 2018, 2019

Predictions: Switch / Switch vs. XB1 in the US / Three Houses first quarter

Mnementh said:
ArnoldRimmer said:

Indeed, the german liberals are anything but left. Ideologically, they're closest to the right-wing parties AfD and CDU; a bit more left than the AfD, a bit more right than the CDU.

I don't quite agree with your left-right scheme in comparison to AfD and CDU. For instance the FDP is disagreeing with surveillance (as this is restricting freedom), which could be seen as more left. But more consequently it is more liberal (in the sense of freedom). In other questions they also prefer more freedom, so for instance the root for less restrictions for companies, while the CDu prefers some more rules for social security. In this case you could see the FDP as right of the CDU, but again it is about more freedom.

Of course reducing things to a one-dimensional left/right scheme is oversimplification, but ultimately that's still the common dimension to classify parties (usually the only one).

When it comes to the somewhat established german parties, the AfD is considered to be the far-right end of the spectrum - and the FDP is the party that is ideologically closest to the AfD. (If you don't believe that, just make the Wahl-O-Mat test, always answer with the original AfD answer, and look which party has the highest accordance: it's the FDP, followed by CDU).



I am getting tired of people here talking about the amazing virtues of the German Model of boring politics...

A fierce debate in how society should conduct itself is healthy...

There are other models that work just as well or even better...

The Canadian model allows for debate and disagreement and we have a normal country that is consistently ranked above Germany as a great place to live.

The idea that you must have always have a  consensus centrist coalition and no actual serious disagreements is rather boring.

Here in Canada, the major split is left vs right and it is a true contrast of ideas and direction for the country and gives people a clear choice.

For example, the choice would be yes to more refugees or no to more refugees in the next election between the two main parties and that causes a lot of debate, anger and division but people have a clear choice.



Around the Network
Mnementh said:
vivster said:

That is a normal risk in democracy as it's still based on humans. I'd rather have a more flexible democracy than a leader that clings to campaign promises despite changing circumstances.

Voting is only every 4 years. It's impractical to hold the same opinions as you had 4 years ago despite things changing. That's just stubborn and stupid. If it's a justified change of heart it's absolutely fine and you are free to vote for someone else next election. Merkel lost a good portion of her voters but the majority is still fine even with changing positions when it's necessary and founded.

Yeah, that's why I want direct democracy. Parliament should make in legislation in most cases, but if the people disagree or want a legislation that the parliament refuses they can put it to a vote. It's working in Switzerland.

 

 

Imo I find many people dont like direct democracy as they think the avg voter is stupid and uneducated which imo is an elitist statement. 

I do think for major issues like Brexit or changing the constitution and such things there should be referendums.

 

Having leaders who get like 30% of the vote deciding such issues is far less democratic. 



LadyJasmine said:


Here in Canada, the major split is left vs right and it is a true contrast of ideas and direction for the country and gives people a clear choice.

For example, the choice would be yes to more refugees or no to more refugees in the next election between the two main parties and that causes a lot of debate, anger and division but people have a clear choice.

"A true contrast of ideas" not really, the Liberals continued many of the policies the Conservatives did, and both parties are going to accept refugees, the main difference would be on how many.



vivster said:
StarOcean said:

Hmm.. so you believe something like a larger recession would benefit the country then?

Theoretically maybe. I don't know how entrenched exactly the ideologies are. It might not do shit or make it worse. Not that I wish it upon them but I am convinced that only a big event like that would change things noticeably.

I mean look at the shit that happened in Flint. Did that change anything about government regulation? Thousands of people suffering is apparently not enough for change. At this point I'm not even convinced that a large scale nuclear disaster at a power plant would change much.

Well, as far as I have heard, some anthropologists (I think that's the study group) think thay we're at the brink of a collapse of western civilization anyway. They don't think it'll be like the Dark Ages, but it will definitely mark the end of the US's global dominance. Of course, they say that could happen as soon as 2050 or as late as 2150. But they're noticing the signs that typically show when a society is about to fall. But anyway, when it does inevitably occur -the US is one of the last places you wanna be. 

Nothing will change if it ends up just being a passing of the crown like it was with England to the US. 



LurkerJ said:
Good to have you Germans condescending to Americans politics and lecturing us about which party is evil and which is nice. Newsflash, there's only one party in the USA, corporatists and lobbyists run the show. Moreover, I'd take those so-called neo-nazis over Islam apologists/importers any day of the week.

Americans are lucky their immigration problems are mainly related benign Mexicans crossing their imaginary border, we'll see how "progressive" Europe become when Islamists stop being a "minority", which is happening sooner than anyone has predicted.

How ironic...a country of immigrants complaining about immigration.

 

Also islamists != Muslims. It's incredible how people from a once so 'free' country can be so narrow minded and xenophobic.



VGPolyglot said:
LadyJasmine said:


Here in Canada, the major split is left vs right and it is a true contrast of ideas and direction for the country and gives people a clear choice.

For example, the choice would be yes to more refugees or no to more refugees in the next election between the two main parties and that causes a lot of debate, anger and division but people have a clear choice.

"A true contrast of ideas" not really, the Liberals continued many of the policies the Conservatives did, and both parties are going to accept refugees, the main difference would be on how many.

Much more of a real choice then in Germany imo..