See, but it hass been proven that majority != right, time and time again. If you are going by the majority then Mario is far better than anything you have on LIVE. The truth is that everything is extremely dumbed down on consoles jsut like people from LIVE complain that Wii games are dumbed down. Ironic really.

@Jagged

I don't know but I haven't seen too many clan dedicated servers. I know about auto-updating, I didn't say it didn't exist. UT3 on the PS3 actually supports honest to god mods, however you still have to have a PC to make those mods. If it was only on consoles then theywouldn't have been able to support mods, you need the PC. The lag issue is simply not true, consoles have thoroughly higher average latency than a PC. Take L4D for example, even with dedicated servers there, people complain about getting over 100 ping, and that's with dedicated servers and all. Imagine what the pings are on the non-dedicated LIVE games, and who knows about all the other types of games.

Truth is that the only benefit that LIVE has is that it's ubiquitous across every LIVE. However when it comes to features and services, you can't beat a good old PC, that's the benefit of an open platform.

vlad, I did not even know about PS3 UT3 being able to have mods. It obviously has been done and can be done again if developers gave a fuck about that functionality. But seeing as how not many have implemented it, they obviously don't give a fuck. And how the hell do you expect someone to code on a console? Of course you need a PC. It isn't like developers use the 360 to code on.

So you are saying that just because the game is on a console, it has higher latency? Explain that please? Or provide something besides he said/she said.

I will give an example of the lag. In MW2 on the PC it also has the exact same bar system as the console versions. After a little hacking you can force it to display numbers. It turns out that if you have full 4 bars that means that you have less than 200 ping. In other words, having up to 200 ping is considered good, meanwhile I haven't played a multiplayer game where my ping was higher than 150 (except for L4D because it has fucked up console system server choosing) since I think UT99.

Also the fact that the consoles cant support mods is a strike against them. It's a limitation. Even that UT3 can't support full conversion mods on the PS3. Lo and behold, it can on the PC.

I understand the benifits/disadvantages of dedicated servers.  Lower latency being one of the advantages.  I have been playing MW2 online and whoop ass.  Lag is not an issue for me.  If the latency is bad, the developers have covered it up quite cleverly.  So cleverly in fact that it doesn't even pop into my head.

If there was enough outcry to get mod support on consoles, they would do it.  It just isn't there though.  A few people care, but not enough to budge anyone.

That's odd, I play Modern Warfare 2 on the 360 everyday and I hardly ever have ANY lag issues, I get it sometimes on Ground War but again, hardly ever, I've had far worse online with the PC, Team Fortress 2 for example, dedicated server yet it was lagging badly with a lot of players moaning about it in the game.

What i'm trying to say is this, lag happens on ALL online games no matter what platform, PC is not immune from it, far far from it and if you think otherwise then I am very sorry how brain washed you have become from yourself.

And also, you keep yapping on about pc "mods", I am very happy we don't see "game mods" on the consoles, more often than not it ruins the game, look at the pc versions of cod4, gta4, unreal etc, totally ruined because of game mods, even on my pc I stay well clear of pc game mods, again, this is my choice and my own view but if they were that popular (and requested) the consoles would have them one way or another in most games.

You can slag Live off all you want but people that play it everyday enjoy it very much, a lot of people out there use pc's and 360's online yet they always return to the 360 as well as the pc, why? because it is a superb service, just because you can't stand it doesn't mean its crap, your word is not exactly law, you seem to know (or think you do) a lot about pc gaming but you really have no idea about online console gaming as seen clearly from your recent comments.

Vlad, stick to what you know, pc gaming, don't start crossing over slagging our console gaming off just because your not a fan, this is how people end up getting banned from here....

Well I doubt many of the players even realize what benefits mods bring to a game. It's also against the developer's interests on he consoles to offer mod support. If they do then why would people keep paying for DLC when they can get them for free from the communityI had a short duscissusion, I think with Kasz, over in the mod thread in the PC forum. He said that all the work the modders have done they might as well have sold the game as a new game. However it's free on the PC. So yeah, dev's don't want mod support for their games and want to keep customers in the dark about the benefits as well.

Also latency is not as noticeable on slow games. To go back to L4D, I don't leave a server unless I'm hitting 300 ping, which is still often, in CS I stay up to 200 ping. In UT and Quake I leave the moment I hit over 125. Just because the games are slow that doesn't mean the lag doesn't exist.

@FKNetwork

I don't disagree that LIVE is very popular. However calling it a better online system than what the PC has is liek saying that Wii games have better graphics than HD games. Both can spin it and use excuses, but the facts still remain. The only thing LIVE or PSN has over PC online is

What is your issue with latency on consoles then? Console FPS games are slower and you stated that you don't need a higher latency on slower FPS games. You seem to have a muddled mind there bud.

Because then you can't have fast paced games. It's a limitation, one that the PC doesn not share.

Fast paced arena FPS games are pretty much a dead subset anyway.  I really don't see the problem.

So now limitations on the consoles are not limitations? That's such an amazing spin on things I almsot bought it for a second...

However I have to sadly agree that faster games are rarity. I guess even developers need to cater to the broad audience who can't get more than 2 frags in one of those.... However it's still a limitation.

P.S. FPS games and RPG games can be very fast paced and affected by lag as well, check out Diablo and Starcraft.

Edit: Forgot to say that I can spin the fact that the Wii has lower graphics int something extremely positive as well.