HHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!

dude, your post made me LOL my fucking ass off!

For God to create a rock so large that it can't lift it then you have to accept that God is a finite being, limited in power and time. If God is a finite being then that means there must be a point in which it never existed, so God would have had to have a creator itself, and that creator must have a creator itself and so on, which is a logical absurdity because that would create an infinite loop for an finite being.

So the conclusion that I would draw is one of two...

1. If an infinite God exists he has to be able to lift that, or any, rock.
2. If a finite God can't lift that rock then he doesn't exist.

That's my (crap) philosophy.

-edit-

I'm number two on my conclusions. But it works either way for whatever side you choose, what I'm saying there is no middle ground with this question.

Omniscience poses more of a problem to free will. If god knows everything then he knows what you are going to do therefore you don't have free will.

Generally the only way around it is to alter the definition of omniscience slightly to make it mean 'the ability to know everything' rather than the absolute knowledge of everything - thus giving god the ability to choose not to know what you are going to do.

Also in my opinion the god paradox (can an omnipotent being be able to be unable to do something) is just that - a paradox. Omnipotence with the definition 'able to do anything' is an impossible term.

@d21lewis. Is your name Job by any chance? =P

@highwaystar. I don't see how coming to the conclusion that god is not omnipotent proves that god is not eternal. How does a limit on power lead to a limit on time?

Because imo it's like being mortal or immortal, they are absolute states. You can't be 'a bit' immortal because that would make you mortal. Same with being infinite, you can't have one factor of infinity and not others because that would make you finite. Existing in simultaneously in the infinite and finite realms is hard to imagine. I think you have to either be finite or infinite, there is no middle ground.

...

Another point in general I would like to make is that in the book of Genesis (taking the Christian case), the Bible clearly states that god created the heaven and Earth in seven days, if god is a being of infinite time then why would he be limited to finite periods to create? Infinite time and finite time are not the same thing, they are not comparatively measurable. A year doesn't exist in infinite time.

Anyway, that's just my personal philosophy.

Infinite and finite realms? o.O

I'm sorry, I've lost you there.



Also why are you making the assumption that god exists within time. Time seems to be a property of our universe and there is no real reason why it should exist outside of our universe. If time doesn't exist then the 'who created the creator' argument kind of falls apart as causality may no longer be required.

You don't have to deny the existence of God to answer that question, you just have to deny his omnipotence. God, if he exists, clearly isn't omnipotent anyway. If he was, he could make everybody good, kill Satan, close hell and force everyone to read the Bible.

People say he doesn't do those things "because he doesn't want to", but that's absurd. If God does exist, he doesn't do those things because he CAN'T.

I'm not making the assumption that God exists within time, that's my point. That's what I mean when I say infinite time, infinite time is not our time, it exists outside of time. If God existed here then it could. theoretically, move any rock, regardless of mass, density, dimension or whatever.

But for me this means it can not a rock within our finite realm. The rock has to be infinite.

...

Perhaps I could be a little more clear about what I mean by infinite and finite realms. Let's use our universe as an example. We know that our universe is a finite realm. However impossibly huge it seems to us we know it is finite of time and resources, there has been a point where the universe never existed and there will be a point where the Universe will no longer exist. We know that the Universe will eventually reach a maximum capacity too, showing that it has finite resources. The Universe is a finite realm.

Now if I was a being that possessed an infinite power within this Universe I would be forced to become finite to adapt to the Universe. Why? Because If I had infinite time I would be limited by the finite time of the Universe and if I had infinite power then I would be limited by bother the finite resources and time o the Universe.

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My argument is not the who created the creator argument at the end of the day, it is a question of finity vs infinity. And you can take that which ever way you want it to.

Essentially a being from an infinite realm cannot exist within or interact with a finite realm.

The question obviously isn't orginal, but you are only claiming its stupid because you dont like it.

Its a logical paradox, like saying can God make 2+2=3, and it proves that the concept of an omnipotent being is false.

I'm sorry but why are we limited to agreeing with you about it being a stupid question?

As cliche as the question is, it does bring up a valid argument. The question gave you answers that all undermine God, now the two ways of getting out of this corner is you either pick an answer that you agree with the most, or you form a new answer that doesn't undermine God and corresponds to the evidence previously given in the debate. Calling it a stupid question is not a valid counter argument when it has forced you to give an answer. The fact that it is a valid argument that has forced you to give an answer is enough to justify the question itself.

Also. People who try to answer this question aren't trying to be intelligent, they are being honest with what they have been told and what they believe, just like you.

Well from the philosophical point of view - what makes them thinking that God would be bound by laws of human logic ? Or that it is being that can be described by human terminology ?