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Forums - PC Discussion - Modern Warfare 2 pre-order sales are failing hard

shio on 24 October 2009
ZenfoldorVGI said:
On a tangent here, it's no secret that the PC has been falling behind in exclusive AAA content lately. That's because there really is no first party. In spirit it would be Blizzard, but with RTS and MMO they are basically stuck on PC until Mouse and Keyboard support hit the console, and also they make about 2 games a generation. :P

According to gamerankings, for 2009, +90% Exclusive games on X360: 2. +90% Exclusive games on PC: 6.

ZenfoldorVGI said:

My point?

Well, SP focused games like Uncharted 2 are well received on consoles. People still love them there. With the PC gamers different gaming tastes, can a game like Uncharted 2 or MW2 survive on great SP campaigns alone?

Or, are console gamers simply willing to spend more money for less "value."

Stalker sold over 2 millions, even though it had barely any marketing outside eastern europe. While it's true that piracy hurts single-player games much more than MP games, but if you make a good game, it will sell.

ZenfoldorVGI said:

My opinion, is that I'm not really into grinding in online shooters. I'm a much bigger fan of unique scripted experiences. For instance, MW2s MP isn't gonna be that different of an experience from Counterstrike, online. Just a few rule changes, better graphics, and a few gaming innovations. Basically, it's just you dicking around on the same game with your friends, that you did 10 years ago. Is this experience required to be spread out over every online shooter? Would PC gamers pay for just the SP?

Console gamers certainly would.

MW2 not different than CS?! Both are so different, like night and day. This just shows that you know so little about the multiplayer experience.

Anyway, at this rate MW2 will just be a crappy version of COD4 (and I didn't thought much of COD4), no dedicated servers, no mods, no communities, more lag, more cheaters, etc...

ZenfoldorVGI said:


It's ironic though...that most PC gamers(like myself) have spent well over 1000 dollars on their gaming rigs. I've setting right around 2k right now, for mine. However, it seems they are much more frugal when it comes to SP games and their value. How come a console gamer will pay 60 bucks for a nice 10 hour game, but a PC gamer has to have a million hours of multiplayer to make it worth 40 bucks?

There pretty much aren't any desktop PCs over $1000 anymore, except in places like Alienware, and very rarely in the common stores. Today you can now build a $400 PC that will run games much better than console games, and this says something.

PC gamers are used to pay for a certain standard in their games, while console gamer's standards are lower. It's just that.

ZenfoldorVGI said:
My favorite PC exclusive over the last few years has definitely been The Witcher. It wasn't a AAA game, by any means, but it was a very fun game, and I had a great time with it. It was SP, I'm not sure it had MP. Was it worth the money, without an online element, to most PC gamers? Is that why it probably didn't get the sales it deserves? Is that MP element a main reason developers are afraid to put high budget SP games exclusively on PC?

What's with this AAA crap?! Stop using that. The Witcher was both critically and financially successful,  it won more awards than any other 2007 RPG.

Mass Effect:
- Bigger budget
- Spent alot of money on marketing.
+ Sold 2.08 million

The Witcher:
- Sold 1.2 million (as of March 6th, 2009)
+ Lower budget
+ Spent little on marketing
+ Higher profit margin per copy, on PC.
+ There's also still 7 months of sales unaccountable in that 1.2m sales figure.

Which do you think was more successful?

By the way, The Witcher 2 is coming out next year, and exclusive to PC.



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Barozi on 24 October 2009
vlad321 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
I think it's great. As a CoD4 player, online, I wasn't able to connect with a vast majority of the community. Anywhere I would go, there would either be an overbearing host, cheating, racism without punishment, a clan beatdown, and huge skill disparities between my teammates and the people I play against. This basically holds the player experience above modders experiences and cheaters experience. It holds the community together, and disparages elitist attitudes and absolute unfair user control. It also moves the PC and its biggest games, more towards a uniform console type system where all players have equal rights and privileges, and rules and limits.

If you don't like it, tough. Console sales make this game exist in its current form, not PC sales. You can buy it or skip it. I think CoD4 was one of the most pirated games of all time, if I recall. I find that much more abhorrent than such a minor issue as lack of DSS.

As for the preorders, they are huge on consoles, and that's what matters to the developers. Do you think that's not true?

This way, MW2 will have a more casual appeal even on PC, and might actually draw new fans in, not the same old stagnant elitist PC fans. In 5 years, MW2 will still be accessible to new gamers on PC. It wouldn't be, without this move.

This is the direction the industry is moving, btw. PC fans have no voice. Money talks. Piracy doesn't. With the glee over the DRM experiment failing, wouldn't it have been nice if that experiment succeeded instead? Maybe it would have allowed the games to sell better, and publishers wouldn't be laughing in the face of your "free gaming" mantra. Did you think that the DRM experiment would end the war? Why didn't you expect them just to try something more drastic? This is a real game. This isn't some independent developer trying to make a name for himself amongst PC pirates, so he can get paid to develop a console game in the future. This is the top dog here. They aren't playing around with you, they don't need to. They do not need your support.

You're going to buy this anyway. Or pirate it. This move will have no effect on that decision for most gamers. It won't hurt Activision financially, it will help the game for casual PC gamers, and Activision will have stood major ground in an effort to wrangle in the free wheeling come-what-may PC community.

If they cave, I'll be dissapointed.

Bolded part is utterly false. CoD has been a PC franchise up until 4 ( when it started to suck the big one, imo) and if it wasn't fo the PC gamers it wouldn't exit.

Also I agree with your monetary reasons, however that's what pisses me off the most, you know what pisses me off. The fact that since games went mostly to HD consoles the quality of games has started dropping like a stone. This is another example of games going to utter shitbecause of HD consoles.

Bolded part is utterly false.

When I think about it.... the whole post is utterly false.



vlad321 on 24 October 2009
Barozi said:
vlad321 said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
I think it's great. As a CoD4 player, online, I wasn't able to connect with a vast majority of the community. Anywhere I would go, there would either be an overbearing host, cheating, racism without punishment, a clan beatdown, and huge skill disparities between my teammates and the people I play against. This basically holds the player experience above modders experiences and cheaters experience. It holds the community together, and disparages elitist attitudes and absolute unfair user control. It also moves the PC and its biggest games, more towards a uniform console type system where all players have equal rights and privileges, and rules and limits.

If you don't like it, tough. Console sales make this game exist in its current form, not PC sales. You can buy it or skip it. I think CoD4 was one of the most pirated games of all time, if I recall. I find that much more abhorrent than such a minor issue as lack of DSS.

As for the preorders, they are huge on consoles, and that's what matters to the developers. Do you think that's not true?

This way, MW2 will have a more casual appeal even on PC, and might actually draw new fans in, not the same old stagnant elitist PC fans. In 5 years, MW2 will still be accessible to new gamers on PC. It wouldn't be, without this move.

This is the direction the industry is moving, btw. PC fans have no voice. Money talks. Piracy doesn't. With the glee over the DRM experiment failing, wouldn't it have been nice if that experiment succeeded instead? Maybe it would have allowed the games to sell better, and publishers wouldn't be laughing in the face of your "free gaming" mantra. Did you think that the DRM experiment would end the war? Why didn't you expect them just to try something more drastic? This is a real game. This isn't some independent developer trying to make a name for himself amongst PC pirates, so he can get paid to develop a console game in the future. This is the top dog here. They aren't playing around with you, they don't need to. They do not need your support.

You're going to buy this anyway. Or pirate it. This move will have no effect on that decision for most gamers. It won't hurt Activision financially, it will help the game for casual PC gamers, and Activision will have stood major ground in an effort to wrangle in the free wheeling come-what-may PC community.

If they cave, I'll be dissapointed.

Bolded part is utterly false. CoD has been a PC franchise up until 4 ( when it started to suck the big one, imo) and if it wasn't fo the PC gamers it wouldn't exit.

Also I agree with your monetary reasons, however that's what pisses me off the most, you know what pisses me off. The fact that since games went mostly to HD consoles the quality of games has started dropping like a stone. This is another example of games going to utter shitbecause of HD consoles.

Bolded part is utterly false.

When I think about it.... the whole post is utterly false.

Oh please, CoD1, expansion, and 2 was entirely suported by the PC sales of the games. You wouldn't have CoD now if it wasn't for that.

As for games becoming shittier. THIS is what happens when HD consoles get majority of a product. It goes to shit. This is a shining example, as it UT, Deus Ex, CoD (last good CoD was the second one), etc. I can expand the list far more if you want me to. Basically, a series hits consoles and it turns to crap. At least that's how the trend goes.

@Monatana

It's not fanboyism this literally proves my point that HD consoles make games shittier. Removing dedicated servers? You don't agree? Maybe t's your own fanboysim talking if you can't see it yourself.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835

 

ZenfoldorVGI on 24 October 2009
shio said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
On a tangent here, it's no secret that the PC has been falling behind in exclusive AAA content lately. That's because there really is no first party. In spirit it would be Blizzard, but with RTS and MMO they are basically stuck on PC until Mouse and Keyboard support hit the console, and also they make about 2 games a generation. :P

According to gamerankings, for 2009, +90% Exclusive games on X360: 2. +90% Exclusive games on PC: 6.

Wait a second, what?

Name those PC games?



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

Fab_GS on 24 October 2009

Signed



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ZenfoldorVGI on 24 October 2009

....if I'm wrong stop me.....

shio....in an effort to refute something that no one has ever denied to me, but you...did you go to gamerankings and sort games by PC and 2009. There were no 90+ exclusives... So, you went in and manually reduced the minimum review criteria for his search from the default 5 to 1.

........you then told me that the PC a has 6 AAA exclusive games this year....

The problem? 5/6 of those games have 1 review. The other game has 2 reviews...

Then, instead of comparing those flagrantly spun and cherrypicked numbers to console gaming, you compared them to a single console with only two exclusives so far this year.

WTF!?

Tell me I just don't know how to use gamerankings, lol?

Can you please respond to this? Let me know if I messed up, cause I'm not sure if those are the games you're talking about? Samantha Swift and the Golden Touch, ect?



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

FonzGemini on 24 October 2009

It was a smart move. All 3 platforms should have the same experience.



naznatips on 24 October 2009

@ Zen dunno what he was looking at. From what I can see on Metacritic (sort by score order then ctrl F for 2009) 360 has two and PC has one 9+ exclusive for 2009. Empire: Total War for PC and Forza 3 and Lost and the Damned for 360. Granted Forza 3 is still pre-release and hovering at a shaky 92, missing a good 30 or so reviews that won't come in till later.



shio on 24 October 2009
ZenfoldorVGI said:

....if I'm wrong stop me.....

shio....in an effort to refute something that no one has ever denied to me, but you...did you go to gamerankings and sort games by PC and 2009. There were no 90+ exclusives... So, you went in and manually reduced the minimum review criteria for his search from the default 5 to 1.

........you then told me that the PC a has 6 AAA exclusive games this year....

The problem? 5/6 of those games have 1 review. The other game has 2 reviews...

Then, instead of comparing those flagrantly spun and cherrypicked numbers to console gaming, you compared them to a single console with only two exclusives so far this year.

WTF!?

Tell me I just don't know how to use gamerankings, lol?

Can you please respond to this? Let me know if I messed up, cause I'm not sure if those are the games you're talking about? Samantha Swift and the Golden Touch, ect?

So what if they have only 1 or 2 reviews, does it make them not AAA because of so low reviews? If Forza 3 had only a couple of reviews, most people would probably still hail it as an AAA exclsuive. Sure, it makes it less believable that a game with so little reviews is AAA material, but don't say that it's a crap game just because it has little reviews, or are you calling Civilization IV: Complete Edition crap?

2 of the 3 exclusive titles from X360 that have an average of +90% in 2009 have also only a couple of reviews each. Forza 3 is the only game that has a fair amount of reviews.

Anyway, with the awful state of videogame journalism, I doubt anything can be taken seriously, in terms of reviews.

Hell, even Forza 3 can't be taken seriously, when it hasn't even come out, and it's reviews released so far were only done so because they scored 90 or above.



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vlad321 on 24 October 2009
FonzGemini said:
It was a smart move. All 3 platforms should have the same experience.

No they shouldn't. The PC is capable of far far more than any of the consoles. Such as dedicated servers and mods and communities. No reason to make games shitty because other consoles can't compete.



Tag(thx fkusumot) - "Yet again I completely fail to see your point..."

HD vs Wii, PC vs HD: http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/thread.php?id=93374

Why Regenerating Health is a crap game mechanic: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3986420

gamrReview's broken review scores: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=4170835