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Citan on 17 June 2009
Bitmap Frogs said:
Citan said:
Bitmap Frogs said:
NightstrikerX said:
Bitmap Frogs said:

@Citan: sigh, you are stubbornly blaming ignorance instead of blaming your own weak arguments. Intertextuality (note, correct spelling) isn't necessarily good in itself. Neither original, neither an intellectual achievement. But we could be arguing this forever because the forums, the forums never change. See? now that's some useless intertextuality there. Woooh my post is an intellectual achievement!.

 

 

 

 

Explain to me why intertextuality isn`t good in itself. Explain why it isn`t original or a intellectual achievement.

Don`t come here saying "it is no it is not it is not. You are stubborn  bla bla bla" if you can`t explain it.

For me it seems that you don`t know what the hell you`re talking about.

wrpg`s is not good games. You see? How can I state something like that without explaining it?

And wait, I`ll put some smileys here too because I think this was the winning statement in this thread

Of course I won`t explain why I think this was the winning statement. That just don`t matter as long as the smileys are there.

And stan, you haven`t replied to many of my answers. You just barge in and attack me ignoring all the answers I give you.

 

 

I just did and you didn't realize. I used an intertextual reference to something appropiate to the subject of this thread yet one you and people with a similar background as yours wouldn't recognize thus turning the intertextual reference in a "inside joke" making fun out of you; thus showing to everyone but you and people with a similar background as yours how intertextual references aren't necessarily good.

The problem here is you are working on a sort of circular logic, to you xenosaga is awesome and as it prominently features intertextual reference intertextual references have to be awesome too and since intertextual references are a literary/language device they reinforce the notion that xenosaga is more than just a game.

In truth, intertextual references are just like pepper. Is pepper good or bad? depends, just like intertextual references it might be used to enhance the dish or to cover the taste of rotten fish (that's more fancy language, it's a device called consonance which just like intertextual references isn't necessarily good neither). In any case, a shitload of intertextual references just like an overdose of pepper just means the cook had a lot of pepper available, not necessarily that the end result is desirable.

People don't reply to you because you are too close-minded; there's a clear hint there when you say "but they don't understand/aren't smart enough to understand". Here's a pro tip: real smarty people do not say that, they realize where's the other guy coming from, what's his mental frame and rearrange the message as needed so it can bridge the gap. When you kept repeating INTERTEKSTUAL INTERTEKSTUAL SUPERFLAT INTERTEKSTUAL did it even cross your mind that the problem wasn't that people didn't understand that, but that the mere repetition of fancy words isn't a convincing argument?

Finally an answer worth replaying to.

What do you mean by similar backround?

 

I`ve explained why the references are good in Xenosaga`s story, but I`ll try again:

You have the main story. Inside the main story are intertextual references to psychology and interpreptions of many of the biggest philosofers and psychologists in the world; Jung and Nietzsche.

There are hords of references to different religions.

So, you say what does it mean to the story itself? Absolutlely nothing to many, BUT for people that`s well read you can see what the game creator want you to experience with the game.

Example:

Momo is a little girl without parents.

Momo is a girl from a known german novel without parents. If you read it you can draw similarities and think f.ex: "Is the girl being drawn to the same fate as the story in the german novel?"

It does make the story better when it`s more complex, or do you disagree?

So how do you know if the references are more than salt and pepper on a dis-tasteful steak? You just have to believe me. But I have an argument why the game have a good story.

What should I say when people are replaying/saying something different to my questions/answers? I couldn`t come up with anything better than: they don`t understand.

No, it didn`t cross my mind, and no-one but me is to blame for that. Nonetheless I have to try to make people understand. I really thought when people didn`t understand they`d say that they don`t understand or don`t reply. Look at the person with Devil-Jin avatar. He kept bashing Jrpg`s and cheering for stan when he meant he won the thread even though I haven`t answered stan.

That`s a typical person that can`t admit his limits. He shouldn`t bother mingling into this thread when it became to "advanced" for him.

I know now where the limits are on these forums and I will adapt for later threads.

I`m really sorry, and I`m the to blame for it.

Hope you understand. My english isn`t perfect.

Thank you



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Jereel Hunter on 17 June 2009
Torillian said:
Zezlar said:
Well if it really was a thread about Xenosaga vs Mass Effects story. I would choose Xenosaga hands down, but that's my opinion. ^^

I'm not honestly sure that's what the thread is about, appears to just be jrpg fans and wrpg fans whining at each other about which is better without anyone having the ability to see the other's side.  It's kinda stupid.

not quite. If you read the posts, it's more about a JRPG fan that asked which was better, and then went on to essentially hand JRPGs the victory under false pretenses. And WRPG fans responding.



Torillian on 17 June 2009
Jereel Hunter said:
Torillian said:
Zezlar said:
Well if it really was a thread about Xenosaga vs Mass Effects story. I would choose Xenosaga hands down, but that's my opinion. ^^

I'm not honestly sure that's what the thread is about, appears to just be jrpg fans and wrpg fans whining at each other about which is better without anyone having the ability to see the other's side.  It's kinda stupid.

not quite. If you read the posts, it's more about a JRPG fan that asked which was better, and then went on to essentially hand JRPGs the victory under false pretenses. And WRPG fans responding.

really?  Because what I see is a WRPG fan talking about how JRPG's are the past, a forgotten relic, and the future belongs to WRPG.  How people can try and sound objective while proclaiming one genre as better than another is beyond me.  You can talk about which you prefer, but claiming one as better than the other is silly.



...

Words Of Wisdom on 17 June 2009

So this whole thread is one poor person's failed attempt to prove that one sub-genre is superior to another?

Good grief.



Citan on 17 June 2009
Words Of Wisdom said:
So this whole thread is one poor person's failed attempt to prove that one sub-genre is superior to another?

Good grief.

You must be a very afraid person. Try discuss for a change not accuse people of being poor.

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Bitmap Frogs on 17 June 2009
Torillian said:
Jereel Hunter said:
Torillian said:
Zezlar said:
Well if it really was a thread about Xenosaga vs Mass Effects story. I would choose Xenosaga hands down, but that's my opinion. ^^

I'm not honestly sure that's what the thread is about, appears to just be jrpg fans and wrpg fans whining at each other about which is better without anyone having the ability to see the other's side.  It's kinda stupid.

not quite. If you read the posts, it's more about a JRPG fan that asked which was better, and then went on to essentially hand JRPGs the victory under false pretenses. And WRPG fans responding.

really?  Because what I see is a WRPG fan talking about how JRPG's are the past, a forgotten relic, and the future belongs to WRPG.  How people can try and sound objective while proclaiming one genre as better than another is beyond me.  You can talk about which you prefer, but claiming one as better than the other is silly.

 

C'mon the guy is trying to legitimise fanservice for the moe crowd just because they tacked on external cultural references ala evangelion.





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).

S.T.A.G.E. on 17 June 2009
Christhor said:
Wow, first time I've seen someone call Diablo an RPG...

and stfu stage, it's not called an JRPG only because of Turn-Based combat

And looooool Bethesda WRPGs full of soul and life, does that include Oblivion (only bethesda game I've played)? xDDD
That's just horrible, the game has no people at all who you ever feel attached to. There only like 10 people in the whole world pasted 1000 times. The game has one of the worst stories I've ever seen, it's at the same level as your average FPS story. The game is only long if you want to do those horrible side quests that repeat themselves over and over. The only interisting things in the game are those guilds, but after you get the top rank it doesn't really matter at all.

Let's compare it to a JRPG let's say... Persona 3 FES, is that alright? The game has great characters, and many of them. There are small stories going on between minor character (like the boy and his stalker). It's the major characters that are the most awesome though, I mean all those characters and I felt attached to almost all of them. The game has an awesome story, and solid villains. The game is also longer than most WRPGs, and has more replay value. And even with all those it manages to have choice and a mute main character, which all of WRPG fans seem to adore. The game is turn-based, but it still manages the be faster and more interesting than Oblivion and Mass Effect's combat.

And yes I DID play Mass Effect, though only for a couple of hours.

STFU Stage?..Why? Because I am telling you the truth, thus taking you out of your comfort zone? You can like JRPG's all you want, but the fact still remains that JRPG's do not represent RPG's in the traditional sense, which is by definition. First of all, did I say that Oblivion was the game ful of "soul and life?"No! I stated that their new games such as Fallout 3 are bringing more people towards WRPG's, filling the void WRPG's used to have. Oblivion doesn't have one of the worst stories, because you affect the story. Have you ever played the game at all? I am also calling bullshit on the amount of time Persona 3 lasts compared to most WRPG's. WRPG's just by their existence have so many ins and outs, victories and failures to rise and fall from with characters and classes to customize that you could play one WRPG for a whole year. I've heard from people who have been playing Mass Effect 4-8 times just to complete all of the achievements, plus the extra mission DLC. Fallout 3 has a very good story and the DLC only makes it better. If you're speaking of Fable II, that game is not meant to last long.

A couple hours isn't enough time to get an accurate depiction of Mass Effect. Montana Hatchet used to argue with me about Mass Effect's not being that great when he first started playing the game; sooner or later he came around stating that the game was "amazing" once he beat it. The game is pretty good in the beginning, but takes off once you get past the Feros & Noveria missions. If you actually finished it, you could speak.



S.T.A.G.E. on 17 June 2009
Christhor said:
slowmo said:
Christhor said:
Wow, first time I've seen someone call Diablo an RPG...

and stfu stage, it's not called an JRPG only because of Turn-Based combat

And looooool Bethesda WRPGs full of soul and life, does that include Oblivion (only bethesda game I've played)? xDDD
That's just horrible, the game has no people at all who you ever feel attached to. There only like 10 people in the whole world pasted 1000 times. The game has one of the worst stories I've ever seen, it's at the same level as your average FPS story. The game is only long if you want to do those horrible side quests that repeat themselves over and over. The only interisting things in the game are those guilds, but after you get the top rank it doesn't really matter at all.

Let's compare it to a JRPG let's say... Persona 3 FES, is that alright? The game has great characters, and many of them. There are small stories going on between minor character (like the boy and his stalker). It's the major characters that are the most awesome though, I mean all those characters and I felt attached to almost all of them. The game has an awesome story, and solid villains. The game is also longer than most WRPGs, and has more replay value. And even with all those it manages to have choice and a mute main character, which all of WRPG fans seem to adore. The game is turn-based, but it still manages the be faster and more interesting than Oblivion and Mass Effect's combat.

And yes I DID play Mass Effect, though only for a couple of hours.


So you're rating a game on two hours play before the story was even apparent, remind me never to trust your judgement of a game.  Also if you cannot argue a point without resorting to telling someone to stfu then it just about proves your intellectual prowess in a discussion.

For the record Diablo as always been classed a RPG, shows your knowledge of the genre.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diablo_(video_game)

I didn't say anything about the story of Mass Effect, I said the gameplay was slow. I can usually judge gameplay after 5 hours.

Nice Wikipedia article "Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name." Nice way of showing your knowledge. Besides I just checked it's an Action RPG and if we go by stage's standards that would mean it's not an RPG. =)

Most people call it hack 'n slash anyway, and I didn't get any sort of rpg feeling from the game. I wouldn't say you get to choose very much in the game, so where's the "role"-playing?

Mass Effect's gameplay is real time action. RPG's are far slower....you have it all ass backwards.



Bitmap Frogs on 17 June 2009

People still play Diablo 2 and that's a 2000 game.

And yeah, Mass Effect's ramping up to the end (specially if you do Virmire last) is a terrific ride. It's an action-rpg but a full blown rpg with character progression, party management, etc etc.





Current-gen game collection uploaded on the profile, full of win and good games; also most of my PC games. Lucasfilm Games/LucasArts 1982-2008 (Requiescat In Pace).

S.T.A.G.E. on 17 June 2009
Son1x said:
STAGE, wth dude, do you hate JRPG's or something?
I mean, not all JRPG's are turn-based, there are a lot (of great ones) action/strategy as well. You speak like that all there is to it.

And @Christhor
the links from wikipedia that end with ) always cut them out from the link you can press. And I count Diablo 2(and 1) as a RPG, WRPG in this example. As in matter of fact, my favorite WRPG.


If JRPG's have action style gameplay...they aren't RPG's. The only thing that makes them RPG's is the battle system since they've been relying upon since Ultima.