Planescape torment deals with plenty of indepth concepts and also has actual interactivity in the storyline, interactivity is important since its what actually differentiates the medium from linear media. Referencing great works from the past is great but it comes to nothing if you aren't actually looking to the future and taking advantage of the uniqueness of the medium.

Some wrpg's also have similar combat system to jrpg's, look at fallout 1/2 and anachronox.

Lol, this wins the thread. I'm done replying to Citan, he's a closed minded fool and it's his problem he doesn't get to enjoy games besides Xenosaga. BTW, the Xenosaga series that was supposed to be 6 chapters came to an end. I guess he'll have to play the first 3 chapters forever and ever!

StanGable said:Citan said:StanGable said:
Citan, does novels that you refer to that are used in Xenosaga, where do they come from? Did they make reference to another novel?? When the other poster said that a story needs to stand on its own is trying to say that good writing doesn't have to be taken from another source. A good story that has all the elements you want can come without having to reference a novel. If we needed to take use other sources to be able to create something good then society would be dead as a whole because new ideas or the evolution of our cultures would not be used on new writings. 

So Mass Effect story doesn't have to be inspired by other cultural works, if the writers for Mass Effect are excellent writers then they can create the story and add all those things that you so desire in a storyline.


What genre is mass effect? Science fiction? Where do science fiction come from? A story is always inspired by something, right?

Did you read my reply on why the references makes the story good?


I swear you must be truly trolling if you can't grasp the concept of getting ideas that are NOT from other works. You're right, a story does not come from nothing, one gets inspired by seeing, reading, hearing, tasting, living. But that doesn't mean the story must be solely based on great pieces of literature to be great. If a person has a great imagination he/she will come up with a great story just by looking out the window of his/her house, not from those novels you keep talking about. If you can't admit that, then go back to your closet and keep reading them. I'll enjoy new things meanwhile and celebrate that are many great things in life besides Xenosaga


Ok, you listen carefully now. Carefully:

Xenosaga is not solely based on great pieces of literature. It uses intertekstual references from literature etc. and that`s A HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Xenosaga have it`s own story.

If you don`t understand this I will try to explain it to you, but only once because I`ve tried to explain this so many times on this thread, I`m getting tired.

It seems to me that many people here don`t understand the word "Intertekstual references".

Try reading my answers will you.

Explain to me why intertextuality isn`t good in itself. Explain why it isn`t original or a intellectual achievement.

Don`t come here saying "it is no it is not it is not. You are stubborn  bla bla bla" if you can`t explain it.

For me it seems that you don`t know what the hell you`re talking about.

wrpg`s is not good games. You see? How can I state something like that without explaining it?

And wait, I`ll put some smileys here too because I think this was the winning statement in this thread

Of course I won`t explain why I think this was the winning statement. That just don`t matter as long as the smileys are there.

And stan, you haven`t replied to many of my answers. You just barge in and attack me ignoring all the answers I give you.

Your answers are being ignored because your a loss cause and you keep going around in circles about interxtuality which leads to intellectual achievement. Let me just tell you one thing: if I wanna become intellectual I read a book; if I wanna be entertained I play a game. Having a good mix of cultural references in a game is nice but it is not necessary and it certainly will not make me a better person because, like I said, if I want to increase my intellect I'll find other sources for it that don't involve videogames.

Well you haven`t answered to my early responds to you. But the topic in this thread was changed to Xenosaga`s story vs. mass effect`s. I don`t know how, but anyway.

No one here have even explained  why mass effect have a good story in the first place. Just play it some say, but I won`t. No one have convinced me mass effect have a better story than Xenosaga, and it seems no one will.

And I have explained why Xenosaga have a good story because of one of many things; intertextuality. And I did even explain you what the intertextuality meant for the story in Xenosaga.

You ignored it trying to team up with other people in this thread making yourself look like a person I should ignore. But I just want to tell you this:

Xenosaga have better story than any wrpg to date! Better=More intellectual.

End of discussion.

Now I just wait for bitmapfroggy, so I can go back to some semi-real discussion instead of beeing ignored for every answer I give. He seem to have a tad understanding. Not much, but a tad.

Stan is hereby ignored.

I just did and you didn't realize. I used an intertextual reference to something appropiate to the subject of this thread yet one you and people with a similar background as yours wouldn't recognize thus turning the intertextual reference in a "inside joke" making fun out of you; thus showing to everyone but you and people with a similar background as yours how intertextual references aren't necessarily good. 

The problem here is you are working on a sort of circular logic, to you xenosaga is awesome and as it prominently features intertextual reference intertextual references have to be awesome too and since intertextual references are a literary/language device they reinforce the notion that xenosaga is more than just a game.

In truth, intertextual references are just like pepper. Is pepper good or bad? depends, just like intertextual references it might be used to enhance the dish or to cover the taste of rotten fish (that's more fancy language, it's a device called consonance which just like intertextual references isn't necessarily good neither). In any case, a shitload of intertextual references just like an overdose of pepper just means the cook had a lot of pepper available, not necessarily that the end result is desirable.

People don't reply to you because you are too close-minded; there's a clear hint there when you say "but they don't understand/aren't smart enough to understand". Here's a pro tip: real smarty people do not say that, they realize where's the other guy coming from, what's his mental frame and rearrange the message as needed so it can bridge the gap. When you kept repeating INTERTEKSTUAL INTERTEKSTUAL SUPERFLAT INTERTEKSTUAL did it even cross your mind that the problem wasn't that people didn't understand that, but that the mere repetition of fancy words isn't a convincing argument?

Well if it really was a thread about Xenosaga vs Mass Effects story. I would choose Xenosaga hands down, but that's my opinion. ^^

I'm not honestly sure that's what the thread is about, appears to just be jrpg fans and wrpg fans whining at each other about which is better without anyone having the ability to see the other's side.  It's kinda stupid.