I didn't say it's pessimistic to not believe in a God, I said believing your life amounts to nothing when you die, tends to give many a sort of pessimistic view. I knew many people who were atheists and they tended to be very jaded about life.

And my argument about failing biologically was intended to discuss the nature of the surival of the fittest mentality, produced within evolution. You see if you actually believed in evolution, you'd also believe every natural inclination and the most common natural inclinations in man would be the result of evolution. It shouldn't have to be a life choice, it should be a desire and intention you are born with. That's not a religious point of view I'm quoting evoltionary physcology. If natural selection is responsible for us, why are so many content with not contributing to the gene pool, when it should be our sole goal in life?

You'll just have to excuse me for believing it's not just primitive delusions, that I don't believe an absurd number of coincedences lined up perfect to form incredibly intelligent beings that have resulted in me sitting here laughing, enjoying a coffee. Life has taught me things don't line up so easily. What would you tell a guy who says to you, "Hey maybe I'll keep winning the lottery every day till I have a billion dollars!" I'd call that a dellusion, and yet that's far more probable then evolution occuring.

http://chem.tufts.edu/science/evolution/HorseEvolution.htm

Looks like evolution to me.

Edit----Also http://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/vertpaleo/fhc/Stratmap1.htm 

Click the pictures to view the fossils, they are conveniently lined up chronologically. 

That's neat, this also looks like evolution:

http://www.art.com/asp/sp-asp/_/PD--13021291/SP--A/IGID--1914377/Mustang_Revolution.htm?sOrig=SCH&ui=1B0A5D3698F943578DF39A93111EEB6C

oh wait someone created these...

I'm not going to get into this debate, I've been in it a bizillion times, it quite frankly don't matter either.

everyone is pretty close minded and just wants to attack the others belief, so one person makes a point,

the other searches the web for a great comeback, and it repeats, and never once does anyone actually

stop to open their mind to the others view, it's because when it comes down to it, you just believe what you

believe, do you believe it's all bull, and there is no purpose to the whole thing, no creator behind it? If yes

then you're going to continualy find evidence to support that view. do you believe in God? If yes you're going to

always find evidence to support that view.

You show me some evidence of god and we'll talk. I already showed you a cut and dry example of evolution. And apparently you don't believe that evolution is real, yet you admit that things are created in succession. So you DO believe in evolution, you just think that god made them all? How about you read the rest of the page as well, not just the pictures? Why would god create all of those different stages in horse evolution? And put them all in the appropriate geological strata?

Also not believing that which there is absolutely no evidence for is not being closed minded.

I hope I can post this link...I don't see why not, it is referenced intensely. Be forewarned, it is 44 minutes long. But the entire thing is very interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arMGLixFse4

I'd say it applies to this topic quite well. 

 No evidence? Look around! Tell me how many coincedences there had to be to get our intelligent race up and running. No evolutionist can possibly explain this. Our planets position, our solar systems position, our suns position. All the evolutionary paths that had to be set straight to get us where we are. Michael Behe, talks often in his books about irreduciable complexity, meaning that there are system within us that require many pieces all in place all at once to function. Evolution and natural selection explain that a change occurs and when that change serves a purpose it stays helping us to survive. But how can you assume that every function in our body magically had all the right components pop up all at once. Like consider all the things in your car that contribute to your stereo. you have speakers, cd player, radio antenna, and wiring. Now lets say your car was an evolving life form, and one day bam! a speaker poped up. I doubt that even within a billion years of random evolutions and mutations would just happen to get wires that connect to those speakers and magically connect them to a radio, and even if it did without power going to the radio it wouldn't work. These things are to complex to happen by chance. It's like shaking the parts of a gameboy up in a box and expecting them to snap in place. It would never happen. If you see something like a house, a game system, a car, you know it's created designed, because it's to complex to just get smacked together accidentally, not even with some motion involved. LIke a little kid is never going to randomly hit keys on a piano and accidnetally play an amazing song.

Now what scientists would have you believe is that a simplier structure would continue to exist based on some simpler uses or fuctioning. Like the eye is commonly used and is spoken of as perhaps being able to make out light and dark shapes, prior to full blown vision. Now that sounds good in theory, but you still are depending on an amazing amount of coincedences to get the eye to that point. Let take a whale for example. a whale is a mammal, and it's been said that to go from a land animal to a water animal it would have required 100,000 evolutionary changes. and at some point complex things would to have to coincendently happened like when it made the transition to water. Plus look at how well designed and how useful everything is in the environment, if I'm to believe all this random crap is generated, we'd have tons of useles body parts tons of wacky hybird like animals exist, yet the only useless thing around is the appendix, I can't seem to find another thing. Seems unlikely that that would be evolutions only left over part. Plus when looking at evolitionary transitions I'm always looking at bones, why on earth with how slow these transitions are, is there not a single living transition? why did every transitional living between all the species today die off? Fox example, like primates, you can say we're close to apes, but what about the species between the two, I'd think there'd be at least group of talking semi-intelligent apes, but no there isn't, the civilization differences are startling. So in the end, I believe what I believe because I look around and a see a world a God would have created, not a random world created by chance. I could argue about a billion things, but in the end thats why I believe what I believe.

HUMANS are transitional. EVERYTHING is transitional. Humans are not the end all of evolution. For example, our bone structure is around 40 percent less massive than a caveman's. That is because they ALL had to be strong, because any minor injury could cripple your ability to survive. And if you want useless body parts here you go.

Plica semilunaris--vestigial remnant of the nictitating membrane, which is a second eyelid no longer useful to humans.

Coccyx----remnant of the tail humans no longer have

Goosebumps---originally intended to raise the body hair we no longer have in order to keep us warm, also happens in moments of stress, also no longer useful

grasping reflex--the ability of infants to grasp and hold their own body weight, originally used when humans had enough hair to grasp, and needed both hand to say, climb a tree to escape with the infant

L-gulono-gamma-lactone oxidase--a gene, found functional in most other mammals, which produces a Vitamin C-catalyzing enzyme, is now no longer functional, but still present

I suggest you look up the concept of vestigiality.

And I also suggest you look up stromatolites, my reasoning being that many many forms evolved from them, yet they still exist.

Also if you look around a see a world a god would have created, you believe in a pretty nasty god. Tell everybody on this planet starving right now that god loves them.

Apostrovich, while it's of little importance I did want to point out that Galileo's condemnation was laid upon him not primarily because what he said was considered blasphemous so much as he was a dick about it.

The only thing he did that could be counted as being a dick about it was, when writing his book "Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems" the person he quoted for the defense of geocentric Aristotelian system was Simpilicus, who was an idiot, and whether by accident or on purpose, part of the book quoted the pope as saying things Simplicus had said, which made the pope sound like an idiot same as Simpilicus. And the church would not have locked him in his house for the last ten years of his life and put all of his books on the Index Librorum Prohibitorum just because he was a dick. Beethoven was a HUGE dick, nobody ever locked him in his house.

@fooflexible

I dont believe for one second you have ever picked up a book on evolution. If you had, you would know that evolution is not chance, and is infact the complete opposite of chance.

The reason why the Earth and are solar system is perfect for intelligent life forms to exist, is because we exist. (Almost) everywhere else in the universe is unsuitable for intelligent life to exist (at this point in time), so it doesn't exist. In other words you shouldn't be surprised to find that Earth is the perfect place for life to exist, because life does exist on Earth!

I also don't believe God is nasty at all, the root of this world is absolutly amazing, beautiful fun, enjoyable. What is nasty in this world is how humans have treated humans, and if you ever cared to read the bible which I'll assume you won't, because I knew before we started this where it would end, but if you did, you'd see there is a reason for what's going on, assuming God doesn't exist or is cruel simply based on the problems in this world today, would be very in my opinion short sighted. 

I'll address some of your other points tommorrow, I don't have time now.