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Forums - Sales Discussion - The 360 a software monster? The Wii a software wimp? I don't think so...

I think the reasoning behind leaving a bundled game out is ridiculous. Since the Wii only plays games, do you think someone will buy a Wii and then just put it under the TV as a status symbol? Although without bundled software, the chances of tracking errors becomes possible.

And if I was going to buy a PS3 as a Bluray player, would I buy the one with bundled games?



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coolguy said:
nintendo sells more frist party software. but xbox sells more third party games

 

 That's true to some extent. That doesn't have a lot to do with the data, but I'll post the ratios anyway.

By this site's data, these are the shares between first party and third party. (I'm not adding the "total sold" as I believe that will just cause confusion compared to the OP. If you want it, just go WW weekly, check the total, and multiply by the percentage/100).

 

Wii:

1st party: 56%

3rd party: 44%

 

Ps3:

1st party: 23%

3rd party: 77%

 

X360:

1st party: 21%

3rd party: 79%

 

And just for the sake of it...

DS:

1st party: ~ 50%

3rd party: ~ 50%

(It's pretty dead on even).



http://www.vgchartz.com/games/userreviewdisp.php?id=261

That is VGChartz LONGEST review. And it's NOT Cute Kitten DS

noname2200 said:
BTFeather55 said:
noname2200 said:
BTFeather55 said:

 

 Also @Manuelf and Noname2200

Dead Rising sold 1.65 M on the 360 and only 100,000 on the Wii.  Like another earlier poster said, there's no way to know how these games would have sold on 360 if they're never released there.  But, I feel that both of these games would have tapped into an American aesthetic that would have appealed greatly to 360 users.  Both of those games are much more American and what 360 users would be looking for in a game than Okami for example.  Madworld with its very Sin City esque graphics would have appealed to 360 owners and Travis Touchdown is a very Johnny Knoxvillian character.   Travis Touchdown as a character would appeal greatly to most 360 gamers, so for those reasons I think No More Heroes and Mad World would have sold quite well on the 360. 

I've given you strong precedent to show that neither game would have done well, ones which used the best-selling console of all time (with its allegedly high "hardcore" base): you've responded with how you "feel."

You then cite an example wherein the 360's game had Capcom's A-team and several years of development, while the Wii's game was outsourced to Tose and done in a few months. I'd also like to point out that the Wii's game was shoehorned (there is no better word for it) into an engine made for a completely different type of game (part of the "let's spend no money/energy on this one" philosophy behind Chop 'Til You Drop).

I'm afraid that your cited support is not strong enough to justify your conclusion. The 360 would not have sold a million copies of either game, as sales of God Hand and Killer 7 et. al. show.

1-Godhand and Killer 7 don't show anything about the xbox as they weren't on there and given cover story status on OXM. 

2-Even with the control in these games shifted back to a more traditional one these games would have sold well on the 360.  Look at The Crackdown it sold 1.48 million copies.

3-I think the 360 is supposed to have a motion controller from some company debuting later this year.

1) Saying those games' performance on the all-inclusive, 120 million+ owned PS2 is not indicative of how the game would do on any other system is nonsense. Unless, that is, you're claiming that the Xbox community is not only filled with people who don't play any other console AND that this community is willing to take a title that sold under 100k on the PS2 and increase its sales 1000%. Neither of those conditions are true.

Additionally, I'd like to point out a real-life example where this fallacy recently occured: remember how Okami was supposed to do great on a Nintendo system, and how its sales would easily eclipse those of the PS2? Sounds silly, doesn't it? Well, you're making the exact same claim.

2) I never mentioned the controls. I haven't played Madworld, but I know that they don't do much for No More Heroes. But then Suda's been dropping bombs with traditional controllers for twenty years now, so I'm uncertain what you're getting at here. The reference to Crackdown (sandbox genre) in particular confuses me. You should just drop that one.

3) It is. But see above.

 

 

      Again, I'm going back to aesthetics here, but Okami isn't a game that would appeal to most xbox gamers.  And Godhand is a little too obscure and weird for most people's tastes.  But a lot of people look at No More Heroes and they see a GTA game when they look at the pictures.  And they would see Sin City if they looked at a box that said Madworld Exclusively for 360 on it.  Both GTA and Sin City are big properties, so I stand by my claim that both games would have sold one million copies on the 360.



Heavens to Murgatoids.

This isn't all that new an analysis, see my post here

http://www.vgchartz.com/forum/post.php?id=1869970

Essentially, our game-buying habits - on average - are probably tied to our disposable income. Wii games being usually cheaper, sell more. But not really by enough to make the difference significant.



BTFeather55 said:
noname2200 said:
BTFeather55 said:
noname2200 said:
BTFeather55 said:

 

 Also @Manuelf and Noname2200

Dead Rising sold 1.65 M on the 360 and only 100,000 on the Wii.  Like another earlier poster said, there's no way to know how these games would have sold on 360 if they're never released there.  But, I feel that both of these games would have tapped into an American aesthetic that would have appealed greatly to 360 users.  Both of those games are much more American and what 360 users would be looking for in a game than Okami for example.  Madworld with its very Sin City esque graphics would have appealed to 360 owners and Travis Touchdown is a very Johnny Knoxvillian character.   Travis Touchdown as a character would appeal greatly to most 360 gamers, so for those reasons I think No More Heroes and Mad World would have sold quite well on the 360. 

I've given you strong precedent to show that neither game would have done well, ones which used the best-selling console of all time (with its allegedly high "hardcore" base): you've responded with how you "feel."

You then cite an example wherein the 360's game had Capcom's A-team and several years of development, while the Wii's game was outsourced to Tose and done in a few months. I'd also like to point out that the Wii's game was shoehorned (there is no better word for it) into an engine made for a completely different type of game (part of the "let's spend no money/energy on this one" philosophy behind Chop 'Til You Drop).

I'm afraid that your cited support is not strong enough to justify your conclusion. The 360 would not have sold a million copies of either game, as sales of God Hand and Killer 7 et. al. show.

1-Godhand and Killer 7 don't show anything about the xbox as they weren't on there and given cover story status on OXM. 

2-Even with the control in these games shifted back to a more traditional one these games would have sold well on the 360.  Look at The Crackdown it sold 1.48 million copies.

3-I think the 360 is supposed to have a motion controller from some company debuting later this year.

1) Saying those games' performance on the all-inclusive, 120 million+ owned PS2 is not indicative of how the game would do on any other system is nonsense. Unless, that is, you're claiming that the Xbox community is not only filled with people who don't play any other console AND that this community is willing to take a title that sold under 100k on the PS2 and increase its sales 1000%. Neither of those conditions are true.

Additionally, I'd like to point out a real-life example where this fallacy recently occured: remember how Okami was supposed to do great on a Nintendo system, and how its sales would easily eclipse those of the PS2? Sounds silly, doesn't it? Well, you're making the exact same claim.

2) I never mentioned the controls. I haven't played Madworld, but I know that they don't do much for No More Heroes. But then Suda's been dropping bombs with traditional controllers for twenty years now, so I'm uncertain what you're getting at here. The reference to Crackdown (sandbox genre) in particular confuses me. You should just drop that one.

3) It is. But see above.

 

 

      Again, I'm going back to aesthetics here, but Okami isn't a game that would appeal to most xbox gamers.  And Godhand is a little too obscure and weird for most people's tastes.  But a lot of people look at No More Heroes and they see a GTA game when they look at the pictures.  And they would see Sin City if they looked at a box that said Madworld Exclusively for 360 on it.  Both GTA and Sin City are big properties, so I stand by my claim that both games would have sold one million copies on the 360.

I think you really fail to realise that NMH is not GTA and Madworld is not Sin City, and similarity means nothing in this sense. You compared those games to massive blockbusters like Gears and Halo which are targeted are more mainstream audience, with massive budget (especially advertising one) in popular genre (shooter) with 3D graphics. Thats like comparing a movie like Dark Knight to Ghost Dog: Way of the Samurai (in term of budget, appeal and popularity). 360 sells loads of software but the titles that sell mainly are the "BIG" games, and those sell as well on the Wii; SMG, Brawl or Mario Kart.

And Madworld/No More Heroes arent those games. By looking at some numbers one could asume 360 does not really sell games with cell shaded graphics just look at Street Fighter or Prince of Persia, they did ok but did they sell really well?

 



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^

BT's "speculation" can never be wrong. Don't you know that? It's his speculation.

 

Just like I can say LBP will easily outsell every single game on PS3 including FF13, GT5 and FF13 Versus if it's released on Wii cause they both share the same target consumers. No matter what you say, you can't change my mind!



MikeB predicts that the PS3 will sell about 140 million units by the end of 2016 and triple the amount of 360s in the long run.

saicho said:

^

BT's "speculation" can never be wrong. Don't you know that? It's his speculation.

 

Just like I can say LBP will easily outsell every single game on PS3 including FF13, GT5 and FF13 Versus if it's released on Wii cause they both share the same target consumers. No matter what you say, you can't change my mind!

 

 

I like to assume that people aren't complete retards and that they can see that their original opinion was flawed. Your way works too though, but you're essentially calling him an idiot.



http://www.vgchartz.com/games/userreviewdisp.php?id=261

That is VGChartz LONGEST review. And it's NOT Cute Kitten DS

BTFeather55 said:

      Again, I'm going back to aesthetics here, but Okami isn't a game that would appeal to most xbox gamers.  And Godhand is a little too obscure and weird for most people's tastes.  But a lot of people look at No More Heroes and they see a GTA game when they look at the pictures.  And they would see Sin City if they looked at a box that said Madworld Exclusively for 360 on it.  Both GTA and Sin City are big properties, so I stand by my claim that both games would have sold one million copies on the 360.

Reasoning by analogy can be a powerful and persuasive tool when done properly. However, it has a severe Achilles' Heel: more so than most forms of reasoning, it is prone to the "garbage in, garbage out" equation.

Don't take this to mean that I'm insulting you, because that's not my intent. However, I feel compelled to point out that you are engaging in some very lazy, highly selective thinking, and that you're both changing the subjects (yes, plural) a bit and missing my point.

My current approach is getting us nowhere, so let's start again, eh? This time, you and I are going to switch sides: I will point to games on the HD systems that I believe would have done ten times better on the Wii, using mostly my intuition, and you will tell me why the reality is completely different. Let's begin.

"The 360's audience doesn't like games with more than three or four colors, which is why Rare's games should be made for Nintendo systems again (Nintendo fans like bright colors). If Banjo: Nuts and Bolts and Viva Pinata had been on the Wii, they each would sell at least two, maybe three million."

 

Now, you begin.



Lolcislaw said:
BTFeather55 said:
noname2200 said:
BTFeather55 said:
noname2200 said:
BTFeather55 said:

 

 Also @Manuelf and Noname2200

Dead Rising sold 1.65 M on the 360 and only 100,000 on the Wii.  Like another earlier poster said, there's no way to know how these games would have sold on 360 if they're never released there.  But, I feel that both of these games would have tapped into an American aesthetic that would have appealed greatly to 360 users.  Both of those games are much more American and what 360 users would be looking for in a game than Okami for example.  Madworld with its very Sin City esque graphics would have appealed to 360 owners and Travis Touchdown is a very Johnny Knoxvillian character.   Travis Touchdown as a character would appeal greatly to most 360 gamers, so for those reasons I think No More Heroes and Mad World would have sold quite well on the 360. 

I've given you strong precedent to show that neither game would have done well, ones which used the best-selling console of all time (with its allegedly high "hardcore" base): you've responded with how you "feel."

You then cite an example wherein the 360's game had Capcom's A-team and several years of development, while the Wii's game was outsourced to Tose and done in a few months. I'd also like to point out that the Wii's game was shoehorned (there is no better word for it) into an engine made for a completely different type of game (part of the "let's spend no money/energy on this one" philosophy behind Chop 'Til You Drop).

I'm afraid that your cited support is not strong enough to justify your conclusion. The 360 would not have sold a million copies of either game, as sales of God Hand and Killer 7 et. al. show.

1-Godhand and Killer 7 don't show anything about the xbox as they weren't on there and given cover story status on OXM. 

2-Even with the control in these games shifted back to a more traditional one these games would have sold well on the 360.  Look at The Crackdown it sold 1.48 million copies.

3-I think the 360 is supposed to have a motion controller from some company debuting later this year.

1) Saying those games' performance on the all-inclusive, 120 million+ owned PS2 is not indicative of how the game would do on any other system is nonsense. Unless, that is, you're claiming that the Xbox community is not only filled with people who don't play any other console AND that this community is willing to take a title that sold under 100k on the PS2 and increase its sales 1000%. Neither of those conditions are true.

Additionally, I'd like to point out a real-life example where this fallacy recently occured: remember how Okami was supposed to do great on a Nintendo system, and how its sales would easily eclipse those of the PS2? Sounds silly, doesn't it? Well, you're making the exact same claim.

2) I never mentioned the controls. I haven't played Madworld, but I know that they don't do much for No More Heroes. But then Suda's been dropping bombs with traditional controllers for twenty years now, so I'm uncertain what you're getting at here. The reference to Crackdown (sandbox genre) in particular confuses me. You should just drop that one.

3) It is. But see above.

 

 

      Again, I'm going back to aesthetics here, but Okami isn't a game that would appeal to most xbox gamers.  And Godhand is a little too obscure and weird for most people's tastes.  But a lot of people look at No More Heroes and they see a GTA game when they look at the pictures.  And they would see Sin City if they looked at a box that said Madworld Exclusively for 360 on it.  Both GTA and Sin City are big properties, so I stand by my claim that both games would have sold one million copies on the 360.

I think you really fail to realise that NMH is not GTA and Madworld is not Sin City, and similarity means nothing in this sense. You compared those games to massive blockbusters like Gears and Halo which are targeted are more mainstream audience, with massive budget (especially advertising one) in popular genre (shooter) with 3D graphics. Thats like comparing a movie like Dark Knight to Ghost Dog: Way of the Samurai (in term of budget, appeal and popularity). 360 sells loads of software but the titles that sell mainly are the "BIG" games, and those sell as well on the Wii; SMG, Brawl or Mario Kart.

And Madworld/No More Heroes arent those games. By looking at some numbers one could asume 360 does not really sell games with cell shaded graphics just look at Street Fighter or Prince of Persia, they did ok but did they sell really well?

 

 

 Well, Street Fighter is a fighter and they haven't really been huge in awhile.  And, I think the POP series lost a lot of steam last gen when the last two games didn't get the same critical praise as the first.  I think that games that have instant pop culture appeal written all over them like Madworld and No More Heroes would do better.



Heavens to Murgatoids.

noname2200 said:
BTFeather55 said:

      Again, I'm going back to aesthetics here, but Okami isn't a game that would appeal to most xbox gamers.  And Godhand is a little too obscure and weird for most people's tastes.  But a lot of people look at No More Heroes and they see a GTA game when they look at the pictures.  And they would see Sin City if they looked at a box that said Madworld Exclusively for 360 on it.  Both GTA and Sin City are big properties, so I stand by my claim that both games would have sold one million copies on the 360.

Reasoning by analogy can be a powerful and persuasive tool when done properly. However, it has a severe Achilles' Heel: more so than most forms of reasoning, it is prone to the "garbage in, garbage out" equation.

Don't take this to mean that I'm insulting you, because that's not my intent. However, I feel compelled to point out that you are engaging in some very lazy, highly selective thinking, and that you're both changing the subjects (yes, plural) a bit and missing my point.

My current approach is getting us nowhere, so let's start again, eh? This time, you and I are going to switch sides: I will point to games on the HD systems that I believe would have done ten times better on the Wii, using mostly my intuition, and you will tell me why the reality is completely different. Let's begin.

"The 360's audience doesn't like games with more than three or four colors, which is why Rare's games should be made for Nintendo systems again (Nintendo fans like bright colors). If Banjo: Nuts and Bolts and Viva Pinata had been on the Wii, they each would sell at least two, maybe three million."

 

Now, you begin.

 

 Banjo Kazooie:  Nuts and Bolts might have done better on the Wii.  It didn't do that great on the 360. 



Heavens to Murgatoids.