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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - My First Reaction to RE5

stof said:
Considering that the Resident Evil series started out with some of the worst controls in gaming, I'm sure this control downgrade won't be a deal breaker for most people.

Not tank-like enough, too much ability to aim.



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I thought the controls were beter this way, the rectangular wiimote hurts my hand...



Destiny Blade said:
@NJ5

Mario Galaxy would have been a lot better... no, I'll say it could have been a lot better with a gamecube controller. I did not like not having very much control over my camera most of the time. I felt that it was mainly because the lack of the standard 2nd analog. Having it there as an option would improved the camera a lot. I also think that it, along with more buttons, would have made water levels better.

Wii Sports is a bad game with or without the Wii mote so I don't think it matters much.

As for Metriod, I don't like FPS so my opinion is pretty biased. Heck, I don't like COD4's controls on any platform.

The 2nd best game that did motion controls good was the DBZ game IMO. I thought that game was really fun, and it's still one of my favorites. Though, it's obvious that a normal controller is better for fighting games.

@Naiyo:
No, I disagree. It's not the developers, it's just the Wii being limited. My main problem is that Nintendo didn't try and add motion controls. Instead, they stripped everything down and tacked them on as a replacement. I'll put it like this: The Wii mote is basiclly what the DS would be if Nintendo took away all the buttons from the GBA and added a touch screen with just a d-pad. It would suck.

That GBA thing don't make no sense.

 



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NJ5 said:
windbane said:

Heh, no, I just feel like I have more control with the analog. I haven't played CoD5 but I hear the controls are similar or worse than MoH:H2 which I did play. I also played MP3. It's not bad, I just think it needs a little tweaking.

Also, when playing RE:UC, I wished so much for a real light gun rather than relative aiming. A mouse and analog stick is also relative, but it would be nice to be able to aim directly at where you want to shoot instead of just guiding the IR like a mouse or analog. When compared to analog and mouse, it uses the same principle of having to guide your pointer (or screen) relative to where you are currently, and I just don't feel like it's more accurate than analog and not close to a mouse yet.

Edit: And it's certainly not enough to trash a game because it's not on Wii. If RE5 was on Wii, I'd still get the PS3 version.

I see.

Regarding "real light guns", check out Ghost Squad which did it properly. From wiki:

Ghost Squad takes advantage of the Wii Remote's pointer functionality, the nunchuk and the Wii Zapper giving players controller flexibility. In addition, the game features a pointer calibration mode, enabling players to use line-of-sight aiming and fire precisely where the Wii Remote is pointed. Should player feel their calibration is precise, they can turn off the on-screen pointer for more points.

 

 

That did spark my interest.  I had ignored that game due to mediocre reviews.  In reading the IGN review, however, I came across this:

" Players should be warned, however, that - as with other Wii games of its nature - Ghost Squad doesn't work exactly like a light gun. Most Wii gun games thus far have used the IR as a mouse, having players hold the controller in a comfortable position and doing little more than steering a target around the screen, and that's the default feel with Ghost Squad as well. You aren't aiming at the screen, but the sensor bar. With the release of the Zapper, however, Nintendo is hoping to make these games feel more in tune with actual light-gun titles, though Ghost Squad did so with a simple calibration screen rather than rocking a plastic shell that is essentially a light gun placebo. Ghost Squad allows you to turn off the on-screen cursor, adding to the difficulty while offering a higher overall score burst. Rather than having players rely on guess work, however, the Wii-mote can be sighted in via an IR calibration screen, at least to a certain extent. Shoot the upper-left and bottom-right of the screen with the controller and you're in business, although it'll still have some issues throughout.

 As Since the IR works on triangulation, the center of the screen will be more accurate than the outsides, so while looking down the "barrel" of the Wii-mote will actually work, the cursor will get progressively farther from your aim as you near the edge of the screen in any direction. Also, you'll need to hold the Wii-mote (or Zapper controller) extremely level, as any tilt at all in the IR will result in skewed aim. As a final oddity, any forward or backward movement after calibration will also throw the triangulation off, so once you sight it in, you'll need to stay in that same position until you're done playing. It's a solid first effort in trying to truly calibrate the IR, but as fair warning to those looking to play Ghost Squad in the more traditional light gun mode, it still isn't perfect. Our suggestion for scoring massive points: Use the unlockable TM9V pistol with the "laser sight" as its special ability. You can turn off the cursor, and still have a tiny dot on-screen at the sacrifice of automatic weaponry or overwhelming power."

It doesn't appear that it's very accurate.  I don't think the IR tech in the Wiimote is going to produce enough accuracy to dethrone a 1600dpi mouse any time soon.  I think they need more sensors around the TV. or at least better calibration.  Not being able to move the controller much isn't going to work.



Khuutra said:
NJ5 said:
Khuutra said:

Pointer calibration is pretty standard in most games that use it, all the way back to Twilight Princess.

The accuracy of the Wii remote's IR pointer is as tight as you could ask for, and it is certainly much faster than an analog stick.

Yeah, I wonder when they'll release the first Wii FPS which allows for GC/classic controller as well as Wiimote for online play. It should be interesting to see how much ownage happens there.

 

Insofar as attacking multiple enemies within one's field of vision with an anchored perspective (as in when locked on in Corruption), it's also much faster than a mouse without being as disorienting to use. In a larger firefight, the Wiimote is tops in most respects.

I agree that not having to change your perspective to shoot enemies is easier, but there are a couple of issues holding the wii back:

1.  It doesn't act like a light gun so you can't just aim at what you want to hit.  It's a mouse, and it's not as accurate as a standard mouse.  I love Area 51 in arcades, but it would not work as well on the Wii because you couldn't aim as quickly.

2.  In a FPS, you have to be able to change your perspective, so there has to be a balance between turning and aiming accuracy within the perspective.  Those things can be tweaked, but to me no game has gotten it right.  Perhaps it is the Wiimote's lack of accuracy or just not the right fine tuning from developers.  At least with an analog controller, your aim and changing perspective are one in the same.  I don't find it disorienting as you describe, either.

 



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Ari_Gold said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:

Unfortunately for FishyJoe, and the rest of you, you are overplaying your hand a bit here. The disparity between the control schemes exists, certainly, but it isn't a significant issue for most gamers, and it's obvious that this conversation is really about greatness of the Wii controls, and not about the series as a whole.

Zen always speaks the truth

I agree with this part. The rest, not so much.



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windbane said:
Khuutra said:
NJ5 said:
Khuutra said:

Pointer calibration is pretty standard in most games that use it, all the way back to Twilight Princess.

The accuracy of the Wii remote's IR pointer is as tight as you could ask for, and it is certainly much faster than an analog stick.

Yeah, I wonder when they'll release the first Wii FPS which allows for GC/classic controller as well as Wiimote for online play. It should be interesting to see how much ownage happens there.

 

Insofar as attacking multiple enemies within one's field of vision with an anchored perspective (as in when locked on in Corruption), it's also much faster than a mouse without being as disorienting to use. In a larger firefight, the Wiimote is tops in most respects.

I agree that not having to change your perspective to shoot enemies is easier, but there are a couple of issues holding the wii back:

1.  It doesn't act like a light gun so you can't just aim at what you want to hit.  It's a mouse, and it's not as accurate as a standard mouse.  I love Area 51 in arcades, but it would not work as well on the Wii because you couldn't aim as quickly.

2.  In a FPS, you have to be able to change your perspective, so there has to be a balance between turning and aiming accuracy within the perspective.  Those things can be tweaked, but to me no game has gotten it right.  Perhaps it is the Wiimote's lack of accuracy or just not the right fine tuning from developers.  At least with an analog controller, your aim and changing perspective are one in the same.  I don't find it disorienting as you describe, either.

 

There is always an element of disorientation in turning in a first person shooter because we are not actually turning ou bodies, it's just that people like you and me have trained ourselves to compensate for it.

As to the points themselves:

1. As said before, many games using the Wii Remote include calibration modes in which the IR pointer is calibrated to correspond according to where you point at the screen. Yes, if you move too much you will need to recalibrate, but it's still there, and it is accurate down to the pixel.

2. More likely a lack of fine tuning. Corruption's still comes closest to me, because you could increase you turning speed and anchor your perspective in any direction (by using the lock-on button without targetting an enemy), giving you one of the best ways to effectively defed a choke point from enemy attacks in any game. I think a more specialized application of the anchored perspective would very nearly make a first person shooter perfect in terms of controls, and while it's possible on the PC the speed difference in that particular application would be negligible.



KylieDog said:
NinjaKido said:
NJ5 said:
NinjaKido said:
NJ5 said:

Refer to my reply again...

There are also people who make it seem like Gamecube, Xbox and PS2 graphics were awful and that's why they don't get a Wii. Even though PS360 controls are more last-gen than Wii's graphics are.

 

*Sigh* do you really wanna go there ?

 

Sure, why not?

Is it not a fact that PS360's controls are the same as last-gen's, whereas Wii's graphics are improved, even if only by a small margin?

 

 

The PS360's controls may be the same but that's not what dictates how good the gameplay experience will be , The Wii's graphics may be improved but they are still pretty poor by today's standard so to say the Wii's graphics are more "next gen" than the PS360's controls is a moot point.

 

You are suggesting graphics add more to gameplay than controls do?   Please stop typing.

 

At what point did I suggest that , did you even read the discussion ? . It's entirely subjective anyway ... you ought to stop typing and read more instead.



Khuutra said:
windbane said:
Khuutra said:
NJ5 said:
Khuutra said:

Pointer calibration is pretty standard in most games that use it, all the way back to Twilight Princess.

The accuracy of the Wii remote's IR pointer is as tight as you could ask for, and it is certainly much faster than an analog stick.

Yeah, I wonder when they'll release the first Wii FPS which allows for GC/classic controller as well as Wiimote for online play. It should be interesting to see how much ownage happens there.

 

Insofar as attacking multiple enemies within one's field of vision with an anchored perspective (as in when locked on in Corruption), it's also much faster than a mouse without being as disorienting to use. In a larger firefight, the Wiimote is tops in most respects.

I agree that not having to change your perspective to shoot enemies is easier, but there are a couple of issues holding the wii back:

1. It doesn't act like a light gun so you can't just aim at what you want to hit. It's a mouse, and it's not as accurate as a standard mouse. I love Area 51 in arcades, but it would not work as well on the Wii because you couldn't aim as quickly.

2. In a FPS, you have to be able to change your perspective, so there has to be a balance between turning and aiming accuracy within the perspective. Those things can be tweaked, but to me no game has gotten it right. Perhaps it is the Wiimote's lack of accuracy or just not the right fine tuning from developers. At least with an analog controller, your aim and changing perspective are one in the same. I don't find it disorienting as you describe, either.

 

There is always an element of disorientation in turning in a first person shooter because we are not actually turning ou bodies, it's just that people like you and me have trained ourselves to compensate for it.

As to the points themselves:

1. As said before, many games using the Wii Remote include calibration modes in which the IR pointer is calibrated to correspond according to where you point at the screen. Yes, if you move too much you will need to recalibrate, but it's still there, and it is accurate down to the pixel.

2. More likely a lack of fine tuning. Corruption's still comes closest to me, because you could increase you turning speed and anchor your perspective in any direction (by using the lock-on button without targetting an enemy), giving you one of the best ways to effectively defed a choke point from enemy attacks in any game. I think a more specialized application of the anchored perspective would very nearly make a first person shooter perfect in terms of controls, and while it's possible on the PC the speed difference in that particular application would be negligible.

1. "Accurate down to the pixel" seems to be in dispute in that IGN review. Perhaps it is done better in a game other than Ghost Squad, but they seemed to have several problems with it.

2. We'll see what happens with developers. I still think it'll require a new generation of controller. The wii-motion+ is only going to upgrade the motion controls as far as I know, and not the IR, so I don't think that will solve the problem. Perhaps I'm wrong. Until then, I'll just agree to disagree that the Wii is anywhere close to a modern PC mouse, heh. I've played MP3, MoH:H2, and RE:UC. UT3 (with keyboard/mouse) is so much faster and more accurate than those, at least.

Edit: I will say that the mechanics you describe in MP3 worked quite well. I wish I liked the game more, but the controls were fun.

 



You may be right. Truth be told, my greatest experience comes from using the bow in Twilight Princess and shooting in Metroid Prime, and though the aiming was very precise (TP was much faster and I was generally more accurate than when using an analog stick in Ocarina or Wind Waker, for example) it may be becuase I was compensating for some flaw without realizing it.