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Forums - Sales Discussion - Analysis: First week CoD WaW Wii major flop, Medal of Honor breaks 500k

DMiesterJ on 18 November 2008

@ Outlaw

Wow.

OT:

Looks like people are still clinging to the delusions of this game having legs. Should be funny.



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famousringo on 18 November 2008


...So 450,000 and 360,000 units (Z&W then NMH) are considered major 3rd party successes? I was just using 2 of the better-reviewed games that had sub-par sales on the Wii. If both were successes, what about the PS3/X360 games that had similar reviews (80%+) that managed to sell millions like Dead Rising, or Saints Row?

A straw man? Really? Nobody has even mentioned Dead Rising or Saints Row, much less accused them of failure.

Could also go with:

Madden 09 (360,000)
de Blob (200,000)
Fifa 09 (190,000)
Geometry Wars: Galaxies (70,000)
Trauma Center: New Blood (150,000 + PAL)

Just for a few of the higher rated 3rd party games in the Wii library that didn't perform too well for sales.

Highlighted the one which can actually be called a flop. The other citations just make you look ignorant for reasons which have already been pointed out by other posters. I don't know why you're so desperate for CoD to fail on Wii, but maybe you should wait for a few weeks of serious estimates to show up before you rub people's faces in it.


"The worst part about these reviews is they are [subjective]--and their scores often depend on how drunk you got the media at a Street Fighter event."  — Mona Hamilton, Capcom Senior VP of Marketing
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mrstickball on 18 November 2008
famousringo said:

 

A straw man? Really? Nobody has even mentioned Dead Rising or Saints Row, much less accused them of failure.

My argument was that SR and DR were both 80%+ games that were generally well-recieved by the public, just like NMH and Zack & Wiki were.

 

Highlighted the one which can actually be called a flop. The other citations just make you look ignorant for reasons which have already been pointed out by other posters. I don't know why you're so desperate for CoD to fail on Wii, but maybe you should wait for a few weeks of serious estimates to show up before you rub people's faces in it.

Ever notice that Fifa 09, despite having an install base of 15 million extra consoles has sold the exact same number of copies as Fifa 08 in the same period?

I'm not 'desperate' for Call of Duty: WaW to flop. I posted that I was excited FOR it to sell, but was going to be very dissapointed if it did very poorly. CoD: WaW is on the verge of selling 2 million copies in it's first week between the Playstation 3 and the Xbox 360. Yet it totally boggles my mind that we're arguing if the iteration on the most popular console in history (or near it) is going to struggle to open with a tenth of the sales vs. PS3/X360.

I'm not understanding Wii apologists that are defending a system that has the following trends:

  • Much lower sales for major multi-platform games, despite having good tier ratios & a massive install base
  • 50% of Top-10 games being first party - First 3rd party game on the Top-10 at #4 (removing Wii Sports) - Mind you, I pulled Weekly data for November 8th data for both this and the next statement.
  • Of it's top 50 games, 12 are 1st party, and 11 are 3rd party games entirely based off of 'mini-games' and don't include other casual-esque games, or shovelware.
  • Few multi-platform games to outsell X360/PS3 versions, again, despite the massive lead in both software sales and in install base.
The Wii isn't a bad system. It's doing very good. However, I am not understanding how when someone says "The Wii can't move a lot of quality 3rd party titles" and provides lots of data, that it suddenly becomes in the Wii owners' best interest to ravenously defend the system, despite the proof to the contrary. If the Wii can't move lots of core 3rd party games, that's analysis, it's not nessicarily bashing of the system - Merely pointing out that it can't move a certain type of game. Much in the way that the Xbox 360 has been struggling to move quality RPGs.

 

 



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

Inigo13 on 18 November 2008
mrstickball said:
famousringo said:

 

A straw man? Really? Nobody has even mentioned Dead Rising or Saints Row, much less accused them of failure.

My argument was that SR and DR were both 80%+ games that were generally well-recieved by the public, just like NMH and Zack & Wiki were.

Here's a bunch of 80%+ games on the 360 that didn't sell a million. Most are less than half a million.

Skate
NHL 09
GRID
Blue Dragon
Pure
Any NHL game

Any NBA game
Civilizatiom Revolution
F.E.A.R.
Tales of Vesperia

I cherrypicked 360 games just as you cherrypicked Wii games.

 

 

  • Much lower sales for major multi-platform games, despite having good tier ratios & a massive install base
  • 50% of Top-10 games being first party - First 3rd party game on the Top-10 at #4 (removing Wii Sports) - Mind you, I pulled Weekly data for November 8th data for both this and the next statement.
  • Of it's top 50 games, 12 are 1st party, and 11 are 3rd party games entirely based off of 'mini-games' and don't include other casual-esque games, or shovelware.
  • Few multi-platform games to outsell X360/PS3 versions, again, despite the massive lead in both software sales and in install base.


1) Much lower sales of some multi-platform games. However Guitar Hero Series, Lego Series, Tiger Woods Series, Sega multiplatform games all sell higher on the Wii. You're also discounting Madden 09 when the sales are so far over 50% higher than Madden 08.

2) Any of the three consoles would have this "problem" if they had Nintendo's firsty games added to their collection. Add WiiPlay, WiiSports, WiiFit, Mario Kart, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, and Mario Party 9 to the XBox360's game catalogue as first party Microsoft games, and all of sudden Microsoft top ten is almost exclusive firsty party. Nobody sells games like Nintendo as a developer. That's only a problem if third party's aren't making money.

Your points 2 and 4 are the same as 1 and 3, just reworded.

All people are saying is wait a few weeks. There are numerous examples of Wii games starting very slowly then picking up the pace. It's the effect of the "casual" Wii market that you are trying so hard to show doesn't buy core games.

Give it until December at least. We don't even have any numbers yet.

 

 

 

 



Gamerace on 18 November 2008

Okay folks, seriously... Why do we care if CoDWaW flops on Wii? I believe it'll sell enough to make a port worthwhile but that's about it. The CoD fanbase, in fact the whole FPS fanbase is on PS3/360 (or sticking with PC). Wii is selling fabulously without them.

Re: Conduit, I think will do well enough, but anyone who expects huge sales out the gate for it is kidding themselves.

It's hard to fathom but Ubisoft did it right with Shawn White. Activision should follow suit. Don't make the Wii version of a game a poor man's copy of the HD version. Make the Wii version it's own unique thing that appeals to a different group. With CoD they should have stylized the graphics (not No More Heroes stylized, that's too much) but made them crisp, clean, eye catching and distinctive. Definately it should have had split-screen multiplayer, and split-screen online too. And more accessible to more people.

Basically make the Wii version a game that people would want as well as the HD version because it's just as good but offers a different and unique take on the franchise (not a total spin-off).

If you want a Wii FPS with Halo-like sales, make Mario Paintball Party. Serious. But do it right. A FPS with typical Mario arcadey action but real depth too. Skill counts but like SSBB and Mario Kart even a newbie can occasionally win. Splitscreen, online. 10m easily. I'll play it, you'll play it and your girlfriends will play it too.



 

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averyblund on 18 November 2008
DMiesterJ said:
@ Outlaw

Wow.

OT:

Looks like people are still clinging to the delusions of this game having legs. Should be funny.

 

 

Not to say this will sell well, who knows. But one persons anecdotal evidance hardly tells me anything. Also how the heck does he know? Does he man ever cash register from opening to closing 7 days a week? 

 



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ThePerilous on 18 November 2008
mrstickball said:
famousringo said:

 

A straw man? Really? Nobody has even mentioned Dead Rising or Saints Row, much less accused them of failure.

My argument was that SR and DR were both 80%+ games that were generally well-recieved by the public, just like NMH and Zack & Wiki were.

 

Highlighted the one which can actually be called a flop. The other citations just make you look ignorant for reasons which have already been pointed out by other posters. I don't know why you're so desperate for CoD to fail on Wii, but maybe you should wait for a few weeks of serious estimates to show up before you rub people's faces in it.

Ever notice that Fifa 09, despite having an install base of 15 million extra consoles has sold the exact same number of copies as Fifa 08 in the same period?

I'm not 'desperate' for Call of Duty: WaW to flop. I posted that I was excited FOR it to sell, but was going to be very dissapointed if it did very poorly. CoD: WaW is on the verge of selling 2 million copies in it's first week between the Playstation 3 and the Xbox 360. Yet it totally boggles my mind that we're arguing if the iteration on the most popular console in history (or near it) is going to struggle to open with a tenth of the sales vs. PS3/X360.

I'm not understanding Wii apologists that are defending a system that has the following trends:

  • Much lower sales for major multi-platform games, despite having good tier ratios & a massive install base
  • 50% of Top-10 games being first party - First 3rd party game on the Top-10 at #4 (removing Wii Sports) - Mind you, I pulled Weekly data for November 8th data for both this and the next statement.
  • Of it's top 50 games, 12 are 1st party, and 11 are 3rd party games entirely based off of 'mini-games' and don't include other casual-esque games, or shovelware.
  • Few multi-platform games to outsell X360/PS3 versions, again, despite the massive lead in both software sales and in install base.
The Wii isn't a bad system. It's doing very good. However, I am not understanding how when someone says "The Wii can't move a lot of quality 3rd party titles" and provides lots of data, that it suddenly becomes in the Wii owners' best interest to ravenously defend the system, despite the proof to the contrary. If the Wii can't move lots of core 3rd party games, that's analysis, it's not nessicarily bashing of the system - Merely pointing out that it can't move a certain type of game. Much in the way that the Xbox 360 has been struggling to move quality RPGs.

 

 

Call of Duty: World at War selling two million copies in one week? Stupendous!

 



outlawauron on 18 November 2008
averyblund said:
DMiesterJ said:
@ Outlaw

Wow.

OT:

Looks like people are still clinging to the delusions of this game having legs. Should be funny.

 

 

Not to say this will sell well, who knows. But one persons anecdotal evidance hardly tells me anything. Also how the heck does he know? Does he man ever cash register from opening to closing 7 days a week? 

 

No, but I am in charge of the game section at the store. It's my job to make sure everything is in proper order. Knowing if we have big games in stock is part of that job.



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Legend11 on 18 November 2008

Every time someone creates a thread asking if the Wii could be a threat to the 360 and PS3 by possibly taking away their core gamers I think of sales of games like CoD: WaW and laugh.



c0rd on 19 November 2008
Legend11 said:
Every time someone creates a thread asking if the Wii could be a threat to the 360 and PS3 by possibly taking away their core gamers I think of sales of games like CoD: WaW and laugh.

I think people are missing the point. The Wii version is not the same as the PS3/360 versions - it's the inferior port, because for this type of game, HD graphics and better online are valued more than the motion controls. It's like comparing PC games vs ports to consoles - like The Sims, Half-Life, or even Starcraft. People didn't buy consoles for these games, so they will remain king on the PC, the platform they're designed for.

The same is true for HD consoles. An FPS designed with HD consoles (and their users) in mind will not do as well on the Wii. In that sense, these games are "safe" from the Wii, along with many others. However, this won't apply to all games. The most obvoius difference will be in the Japanese support.