By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony Discussion - KillZone 2 "officially" delayed to 2009

I wanted Kill Zone 2 more than any other game this year. I am pissed off by this bad news.



Around the Network
ckmlb said:
Saw this one coming when they said 1 month apart for R2 and KZ2.

There's not exactly a lot of room on the PS3 this year as it is:

May: Haze and Wipeout HD
June: Metal Gear Solid 4
July: Soul Calibur IV
August: Mercenaries 2 and Saints Row 2
September: SoCom, Silent Hill 5, Prototype(?), Fallout 3 (?)
October: Little Big Planet (?), Motorstorm 2 (?)
November: Resistance 2
December: Tekken 6 (?)

Add in Borderlands, Farcry 2 and Street Fighter IV somewhere in there and that's a calender packed with big releases.

Indeed. I am more looking forward to Resistance 2 anyway. At this point Killzone 2 is going to have to blow people away to live up to the hype. It's going to be even harder coming after Resistance 2...



starcraft said:
twesterm said:
Million said:
starcraft said:
Somehow I doubt this was delayed because of Resistance 2. Microsoft launched a bevy of first party titles late last year. I think it is because Killzone 2's development has fallen behind.

 

I think it might be for KZ2 development time but then wasn't KZ2 due to release last year ? I think it wouldn't be right to associate the problem with a cause just yet , espeicaly without any inside info .


With as many delays as it had already had (wasn't it supposed to be a 2006 game?) I wouldn't be surprised if it was another delay. In the minds of the producers the sooner they can get that game out the door and stop bleeding money the better.

Well, since this thread is rumour-based, there is all the talk from surfer girl about blowing out budgets and gameplay that is gimped beyond the point of return (something they may hope to change with a delay).

Also, DMeisterJ sent me this link:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/apr/28/sonylondon

If they are delaying the game and bringing new developers in, they may have lost faith in GG and are trying to save a bad game. But if thats what they are doing, the development budget must be approaching astronomical levels.

 


 

More than just Sony London has been assisting GG. Actually, all of Sony's in-house teams keep in constant touch with each other, and actively assist each other in development of SCE development tools. Though GG has been getting an unusual amount of help from other parts of SCE. For instance, Sony Cambridge has been working with the team since the beginning.

This was the reason Sony bought GG. They liked GGs's ideas, and wanted to help them better execute these ideas. Hence why Sony has given them SO much. Budget, specific assistance from Sony Cambridge (the entire time, so don't say that proves the game is failing), contracts with third parties like Second Intention to improve their engine, etc.

And honestly, what's wrong with another delay to improve some problems (and I still don't believe it's been delayed)? The original Killzone would've been much better for it, as many of the prime complaints could've easily fixed with a little more time (insane amounts of texture pop-in, among other things).

And I wonder, why aren't you faulting Too Human for it's inordinate amount of delays? The videos and hands-on impressions of Killzone 2 have been far more favorable than anything seen on TH, yet your contenttpost on basing your opinions on rumor and speculation. Surfer girl and a single post on NeoGAF? C'mon man.

If you want to know more about Killzone 2's development history, just read through this thread from NeoGAF made in early 2007:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143426

Some of the highlights:

(bolded parts in parenthesis added by me)


- Guerrilla was bought by Sony in December 2005 and was then welcomed into the 1st party family.

- Team that worked on the original consisted of ~60individuals. Now there are over 130 employees at Guerrilla (with Sony Cambridge helping out with additional modeling).

- Killzone PS3 will have episodic content released online after launch Phil Harrison said a good while ago (as demonstrated by Half-life 2 and with Guerrilas own Killzone Liberation).
He has also talked about Sony testing out a PS3 app in that you can record videos of actual gameplay taking place. It was said that they were going to demonstrate this with a title in 07.

- Phil Harrison has said that some aspects of the game is already past what was seen in the cg trailer (for reference, he also thinks MotorStorm lived up to it's trailer). Killzone will not be shown before he thinks it is ready (that time is now pretty much confirmed to be E3, July 11th-13th). (the lighting exceeds the trailer, imo, though other aspects are far behind, like textures and polygon count)

- Killzone PS3 is the most expensive media production ever in the Netherlands with a budget past 21million $ (which was the previous record set by Paul Verhoeven's recent WW2 movie Zwartboek).

- Luke Smith @ 1up.com has heard some talk about Guerrilla having had the game working online for over a year (comments by Guerrilla employees on Sony's own PlayStation boards as far back as 2005 indicate them playing a secret project online daily). (online multiplayer that far back! The first Killzone had the most robust online of the ps2, imo, so I'm sure GG are focusing heavily on this for the sequel)

- Phil Harrison mentioned on the GameTheory podcast that all Sony 1st party devs are sharing technology between each other to some degree so that would include Guerrilla (Naughty Dog have also referred directly to Guerrilla as a team they were in talks with).

- The technical director recently said in an article that almost everything in Killzone 2 will be destroyable. No longer will a big tanks stop because of a fence (which will now be crushed to the ground). Trees for example can now be cleared away with a rocket launcher. They had a lot of technical problems working on the PS2 he said but now they are able to fulfill their vision with the PS3 hardware.

- At GDC a tech demo set in the Killzone universe was displayed. It showed both Helghast and ISA shooting each other in both claustrophobic indoor environments as well as larger outdoor areas and cityscapes with impressive physics to boot.

"The best way to describe how the aftermath looked is that it's "BLACK" for the next generation" IGN said.

"As with the previous Killzone trailer, the game looks like it has the potential to make quite a splash for the PlayStation 3 if it delivers on its promise. The action looks fast and detailed, and it seems to be covering all the right bases. The visuals are looking sharp, and the vast scale of the outdoor areas is impressive, while the indoor spaces we saw were good and claustrophobic." Gamespot states.

GameReactor has the following impression:

Quote:
Contrary to what you may have heard Killzone 2 was at GDC. A trailer was shown at a pre-keynote speech press briefing that we attended. It was, said Sony boss Phil Harrison, to showcase what can be done with the PlayStation Edge developer tools, not the game. But we'll see. Due to Sony restrictions, you can't see it on the net. But it went like this...

Heavy, doom-laden classical music kicks in. An urban warzone appears. It looks like in-game action - genuine in-game action. The Helghast are in a shootout with human commandos. It looks dusty, but also quite beautiful.

The humans are losing the battle, and several dart into a nearby house. One falls - in super slow motion - as he reaches the door, showcasing how superb the character models are. His compatriots have no time to help and run inside, pursued by the Helghast. Outside, a massive tank rolls into view, thundering off blasts into alleyways. The screen darkens again. "More at E3 in July 2007," says the message. We breathe out, impressed if not blown away. Some have griped about it not looking the equal of that E3 trailer. It's true that it doesn't, but it still looks excellent to us. Killzone 2 breaks cover in July, and we'll be first with details.
Update: A Guerrilla employee has since revealed that the GDC video was a collection of multiplayer footage. (Yup, they've had the multiplayer in the works for quite some time now. With all this playtesting, I'm sure it sucks just like Surfer Girl said)

- Apparently the graphical engine powering Killzone 2 is using a technique called Deferred Lighting Rendering. Guerrilla will be at the Develop conference in July 24th to 26th in Brighton to detail this further (this is after Killzone 2 has had it's E3 reveal on July 11th).
Quote:
Deferred rendering in Killzone 2
Michal Valient, Guerrilla-Games

Next generation gaming brought high resolutions, very complex environments and large textures to our living rooms. With virtually every asset being inflated, it's hard to use traditional forward rendering and hope for rich, dynamic environments with extensive dynamic lighting. Deferred rendering, on the other hand, has been traditionally described as a nice technique for rendering of scenes with many dynamic lights, that unfortunately suffers from fill-rate problems and lack of anti-aliasing and very few games that use it were published.

In this talk, we will discuss our approach to face this challenge and how we designed a deferred rendering engine that uses multi-sampled anti-aliasing (MSAA). We will give in-depth description of each individual stage of our real-time rendering pipeline and the main ingredients of our lighting, post-processing and data management. We'll show how we utilize PS3's SPUs for fast rendering of a large set of primitives, parallel processing of geometry and computation of indirect lighting. We will also describe our optimizations of the lighting and our parallel split (cascaded) shadow map algorithm for faster and stable MSAA output.

Take Away
The session will provide detailed overview and optimizations of modern rendering engine and parallel processing. Many of the topics are applicable for various gaming platforms.

CODING LECTURE

Update: SecondIntention, a New Zealand tech firm has been partnering with Guerrilla since 2005 on the lighting and shadowing aspect of their engine among other things.
Source 1
Source 2

(See? Sony is investing a lot in this game. This is far bigger than just GG. A third party company hired only for lighting!)

- OMG. Sony are sending out E3 Killzone 2 invites for a standalone event to take place straight after the MS keynote on July 10 and the day before Sony's actual keynote. This is going to be big. =) (This is Sony's #1 game. They're giving it it's own media events! The budget is astronomical for a reason. They are making this game everything it can be.)



As someone already mentioned cklmb, why would Killzone 2, and not Resistance 2, be the sacrificial lamb that gets delayed to the slow months if it truly is as great as Sony proclaim?

Edit:  @ Makingmusic

Oh but I do fault Too Human for it's epic development time.  By all accounts, the money it has used up over the last ten years is enormous.  However, not all of this has been spent by Microsoft, who only acquired publishing rights a few years back.  Furthermore, it now appears the game is rapidly approaching release, whereas it now appears by the time Killzone 2 comes out, it will have been in development for 5+ years.

But as I said a little while back in the latest Too Human thread, it is quite possible the game willl turn out shit, it's just unlikely given how much Microsoft has been talking about it lately. 



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

starcraft said:
As someone already mentioned cklmb, why would Killzone 2, and not Resistance 2, be the sacrificial lamb that gets delayed to the slow months if it truly is as great as Sony proclaim?

Insomniac is independent. They'd never let Sony get away with wasting their time and money by sitting on a completed project.

And I still don't think the game has been delayed, but even if it has, it's on Sony to take the loss, not Insomniac.



Around the Network
starcraft said:

As someone already mentioned cklmb, why would Killzone 2, and not Resistance 2, be the sacrificial lamb that gets delayed to the slow months if it truly is as great as Sony proclaim?

Edit: @ Makingmusic

Oh but I do fault Too Human for it's epic development time. By all accounts, the money it has used up over the last ten years is enormous. However, not all of this has been spent by Microsoft, who only acquired publishing rights a few years back. Furthermore, it now appears the game is rapidly approaching release, whereas it now appears by the time Killzone 2 comes out, it will have been in development for 5+ years.

But as I said a little while back in the latest Too Human thread, it is quite possible the game willl turn out shit, it's just unlikely given how much Microsoft has been talking about it lately.

5+ years?  They didn't even start working on the game until after the CGI trailer from 2005.  KZ: Liberation wasn't even finished until the end of 2005.  That would mke 3 years, 3 1/2 if it's delayed.

And care to comment on the rest of my post?  That hardly paints the picture of a doomed development cycle. 



makingmusic476 said:
starcraft said:

As someone already mentioned cklmb, why would Killzone 2, and not Resistance 2, be the sacrificial lamb that gets delayed to the slow months if it truly is as great as Sony proclaim?

Edit: @ Makingmusic

Oh but I do fault Too Human for it's epic development time. By all accounts, the money it has used up over the last ten years is enormous. However, not all of this has been spent by Microsoft, who only acquired publishing rights a few years back. Furthermore, it now appears the game is rapidly approaching release, whereas it now appears by the time Killzone 2 comes out, it will have been in development for 5+ years.

But as I said a little while back in the latest Too Human thread, it is quite possible the game willl turn out shit, it's just unlikely given how much Microsoft has been talking about it lately.

5+ years? They didn't even start working on the game until after the CGI trailer from 2005. KZ: Liberation wasn't even finished until the end of 2005. That would mke 3 years, 3 1/2 if it's delayed.

And care to comment on the rest of my post? That hardly paints the picture of a doomed development cycle.

I was under the impression that they were well and truly underway with development PRIOR to the 2005 E3 demo, hence they were able to convince the world at large (for a time) that it was real-time footage.

As for the rest of your post.  There is one common theme in just about every section of it: Graphics.  Your post lends more credence to the likelihood that Killzone 2 will be nothing more than a graphical showpiece for the PS3.  That is not to say that graphical showpieces have no merit, but their is a difference between Gears of War as a graphical showpiece and Lair as a graphical showpiece (And no, I don't think that K2 will be "Lair-like," but I do believe there is much more stacked up against the likelihood of it having amazing gameplay than you are willing to admit). 

 



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

starcraft said:
makingmusic476 said:
starcraft said:

As someone already mentioned cklmb, why would Killzone 2, and not Resistance 2, be the sacrificial lamb that gets delayed to the slow months if it truly is as great as Sony proclaim?

Edit: @ Makingmusic

Oh but I do fault Too Human for it's epic development time. By all accounts, the money it has used up over the last ten years is enormous. However, not all of this has been spent by Microsoft, who only acquired publishing rights a few years back. Furthermore, it now appears the game is rapidly approaching release, whereas it now appears by the time Killzone 2 comes out, it will have been in development for 5+ years.

But as I said a little while back in the latest Too Human thread, it is quite possible the game willl turn out shit, it's just unlikely given how much Microsoft has been talking about it lately.

5+ years? They didn't even start working on the game until after the CGI trailer from 2005. KZ: Liberation wasn't even finished until the end of 2005. That would mke 3 years, 3 1/2 if it's delayed.

And care to comment on the rest of my post? That hardly paints the picture of a doomed development cycle.

I was under the impression that they were well and truly underway with development PRIOR to the 2005 E3 demo, hence they were able to convince the world at large (for a time) that it was real-time footage.

As for the rest of your post. There is one common theme in just about every section of it: Graphics. Your post lends more credence to the likelihood that Killzone 2 will be nothing more than a graphical showpiece for the PS3. That is not to say that graphical showpieces have no merit, but their is a difference between Gears of War as a graphical showpiece and Lair as a graphical showpiece (And no, I don't think that K2 will be "Lair-like," but I do believe there is much more stacked up against the likelihood of it having amazing gameplay than you are willing to admit).

 

What about the parts about them play-testing multiplayer long before even GDC 2007 (Februray 2007)?

And you're acting as if the first had horrible gameplay. The first was knocked primarily for it's graphical glitches (omg the texture pop-in was horrible) and it's brain dead AI. I'll make the hefty assumption that the graphical glitches will be a thing of the past, and they've stated that they are focusing heavily on improving the AI, as they know it was a chief complaint with the original (they state this in the GameSpot developer walkthrough, I believe, though it may have been IGN's or GT's). Killzone Liberation even had much improved AI compared to the original, and it was a PSP game.

There's a reason KZ1's online was so popular compared to it's campaign, and it wasn't because the gameplay was crap.

And, imo, it's the impressive visuals combined with awesome death animations that will make the gameplay more immersive and fun than it was before.

Will the gameplay be excellent? I can't say, but it has a higher likelihood of being excellent than being below average. And I know it won't be "horrible beyond the point of return" like Surfer Girl said.



makingmusic476 said:
 

What about the parts about them play-testing multiplayer long before even GDC 2007 (Februray 2007)?

And you're acting as if the first had horrible gameplay. The first was knocked primarily for it's graphical glitches (omg the texture pop-in was horrible) and it's brain dead AI. I'll make the hefty assumption that the graphical glitches will be a thing of the past, and they've stated that they are focusing heavily on improving the AI, as they know it was a chief complaint with the original (they state this in the GameSpot developer walkthrough, I believe, though it may have been IGN's or GT's). Killzone Liberation even had much improved AI compared to the original, and it was a PSP game.

There's a reason KZ1's online was so popular compared to it's campaign, and it wasn't because the gameplay was crap.

And, imo, it's the impressive visuals combined with awesome death animations that will make the gameplay more immersive and fun than it was before.

Will the gameplay be excellent? I can't say, but it has a higher likelihood of being excellent than being below average. And I know it won't be "horrible beyond the point of return" like Surfer Girl said.

I guess we will wait and see then.  You seem to think that I believe Killzone 2 will be horrible, and I do not.  I just think that given the failings of the original, the constant 'pushing back' of 'assumed' release periods (as you don't like the word 'delay' ) and the trappings that come with a rapid expansion of the development team's size, there is a lot of clear doubt as to whether this will be the AAA title that Sony claims it will be.

I forsee a decent, low-to-mid eighties shooter, with passable online and full marks for graphics. 

 



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

starcraft said:
makingmusic476 said:
 

What about the parts about them play-testing multiplayer long before even GDC 2007 (Februray 2007)?

And you're acting as if the first had horrible gameplay. The first was knocked primarily for it's graphical glitches (omg the texture pop-in was horrible) and it's brain dead AI. I'll make the hefty assumption that the graphical glitches will be a thing of the past, and they've stated that they are focusing heavily on improving the AI, as they know it was a chief complaint with the original (they state this in the GameSpot developer walkthrough, I believe, though it may have been IGN's or GT's). Killzone Liberation even had much improved AI compared to the original, and it was a PSP game.

There's a reason KZ1's online was so popular compared to it's campaign, and it wasn't because the gameplay was crap.

And, imo, it's the impressive visuals combined with awesome death animations that will make the gameplay more immersive and fun than it was before.

Will the gameplay be excellent? I can't say, but it has a higher likelihood of being excellent than being below average. And I know it won't be "horrible beyond the point of return" like Surfer Girl said.

I guess we will wait and see then. You seem to think that I believe Killzone 2 will be horrible, and I do not. I just think that given the failings of the original, the constant 'pushing back' of 'assumed' release periods (as you don't like the word 'delay' ) and the trappings that come with a rapid expansion of the development team's size, there is a lot of clear doubt as to whether this will be the AAA title that Sony claims it will be.

I forsee a decent, low-to-mid eighties shooter, with passable online and full marks for graphics.

 


Your constant reference of the Surfer Girl rumor (it's freakin' Surfer Girl) certainly points to that.

And, as I tried to point out, the original's failings weren't in gameplay so much as graphics and AI (the latter of which did affect singeplayer gameplay to an extent). 

Although another complaint of the game was that it never quite had the scale of a major war (I seem to recall IGN's review of the original complaining about this specifically, and I noticed it while playing the game).  Battles were often small, consisting of maybe 10 guys duking it out. The E307 (as well as the GDC07 trailer we never saw, as mentioned above) shows the complete opposite.  The size of the battles in KZ2 will be quite immense.

I see a mid-80s game in all areas BUT graphics.  The graphics will bring the game up to high 80s or low 90s, imo.  Of course, I'd hope (and believe it is quite possible) that the game will be a 90s title across the board.

I remain cautiously optimistic about the title.