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Forums - Politics - African attitudes towards sexuality, LGTQ+ stuff, and American blacks

pokoko said:

It has little to do with religion, at least in the United States.

The primary reason has to do with physical dominance as a means to establish higher social status. Poor white culture and poor black culture are both very focused on proving yourself physically in terms of power and bravery. Anything that threatens the hierarchy has to be rejected and mocked, sometimes violently. It's why calling someone a "bitch" can get you killed in some places.

It's not just gender and sexuality. Being bullied for being too smart, for example, because it's a threat to someone's self-image and status.

I would guess that it's much the same in Africa, as strength and virility is a common way to determine status in poor cultures all over the world.

ahhhh, yes.  The southern mentality, the honor culture.  



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A lot of anti-LGBTQ+ sentiment in Africa is being fostered by white American evangelicals. Case in point: Uganda, which is 82% Christian, more than the US. 

The US connection to Uganda’s ‘kill the gays’ bill - Washington Post

A group of Ugandi LGBTQ+ activists tried to sue Scott Lively, the American pastor largely responsible for the “kill the gays” law. Their suit was dismissed because the court lacked jurisdiction to hear the cass, but the judge acknowledged that they had a legitimate complaint.

Sexual Minorities Uganda v. Lively, No. 17-1593 (1st Cir. 2018)



SanAndreasX said:

A lot of anti-LGBTQ+ sentiment in Africa is being fostered by white American evangelicals. Case in point: Uganda, which is 82% Christian, more than the US. 

The US connection to Uganda’s ‘kill the gays’ bill - Washington Post

A group of Ugandi LGBTQ+ activists tried to sue Scott Lively, the American pastor largely responsible for the “kill the gays” law. Their suit was dismissed because the court lacked jurisdiction to hear the cass, but the judge acknowledged that they had a legitimate complaint.

Sexual Minorities Uganda v. Lively, No. 17-1593 (1st Cir. 2018)

But Uganda is mostly Catholic right? As far as I know American evangelicals are not Catholic. I might be wrong. Just sounds weird to think 'a lot' is due to Americans in an East African country.



Tober said:
SanAndreasX said:

A lot of anti-LGBTQ+ sentiment in Africa is being fostered by white American evangelicals. Case in point: Uganda, which is 82% Christian, more than the US. 

The US connection to Uganda’s ‘kill the gays’ bill - Washington Post

A group of Ugandi LGBTQ+ activists tried to sue Scott Lively, the American pastor largely responsible for the “kill the gays” law. Their suit was dismissed because the court lacked jurisdiction to hear the cass, but the judge acknowledged that they had a legitimate complaint.

Sexual Minorities Uganda v. Lively, No. 17-1593 (1st Cir. 2018)

But Uganda is mostly Catholic right? As far as I know American evangelicals are not Catholic. I might be wrong. Just sounds weird to think 'a lot' is due to Americans in an East African country.

42% Catholic, 29% Protestant.

American right wingers have been waging concerted, well-funded efforts on Africa to get these laws passed for almosf 20 years. Evangelicals are willing to use receptive Catholics to their own ends as well. They love Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito, who are both Catholic, and right-wing Catholics in the US, even members of the clergy, have likewise aligned themselves with evangelicals, even over the Pope. 



shavenferret said:
Vinther1991 said:

Why are you pointing fingers at parties for not being outraged for you, can you not take on the task of being outraged yourself? Join an organization that fights discrimination within minority groups or start one or something, instead of asking people who are busy making a difference in other areas to do the work for you.

I am not a Christian, whether I am a feminist or not depends on the definition of the word.

So you don’t like me pointing fingers at you then? It makes you feel bad huh? Well you should be critical of these issues, many lgbtq people have been killed in Africa. And Americans should not stand for the homophobia of blacks either. They shouldn’t get a free pass on that, because it takes everyone to make a great society. 

Are you pointing fingers at me also now? For what?

You started out hallucinating about hypocrisies, and as soon as you get pushback on it, you just moved the goal post. You claim you aren't supposed to be outraged, says who? And you say "Liberal people logic makes you first calculate...", who has that logic?

Give us a name so we know where to target the anger!



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SanAndreasX said:

A lot of anti-LGBTQ+ sentiment in Africa is being fostered by white American evangelicals. Case in point: Uganda, which is 82% Christian, more than the US. 

The US connection to Uganda’s ‘kill the gays’ bill - Washington Post

A group of Ugandi LGBTQ+ activists tried to sue Scott Lively, the American pastor largely responsible for the “kill the gays” law. Their suit was dismissed because the court lacked jurisdiction to hear the cass, but the judge acknowledged that they had a legitimate complaint.

Sexual Minorities Uganda v. Lively, No. 17-1593 (1st Cir. 2018)

Whatever the case is with christians.... it is worse for Islam.
There are islamist that kill gay people in the middel east.

There is currently a Cruise ship, that has been denied entry into multiple muslim countries (turkey,egypt, ect) because they "went against the muslim countries moral standards" (explaination given).

Basically they don't want gay people there, and don't want to put up with say.... a certain amount of them being killed there, hitting the news.
So it is just "no entry" for gay people.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDc4wFPnsRQ



Yeah it's always struck me as paradoxical that those who aggressively push for LGBT rights/welfare/interests also seem to look favourably on Islam, despite the fact that homosexuality is persecuted in most Muslim countries. 



curl-6 said:

Yeah it's always struck me as paradoxical that those who aggressively push for LGBT rights/welfare/interests also seem to look favourably on Islam, despite the fact that homosexuality is persecuted in most Muslim countries. 

In the US, the persecution overwhelmingly comes from evangelical Christians. American Muslims tend to live and let live.

There is no excuse for double-tapping Iranian schools, or what Texas evangelicals are trying to do to the Muslim population.

There's also the realization that what we allow Christian evangelicals to do to Muslims while they are in power, they can easily do to other groups of people. They're already turning their ire on East Asians, Indians, blacks, and people in blue states. 



SanAndreasX said:
curl-6 said:

Yeah it's always struck me as paradoxical that those who aggressively push for LGBT rights/welfare/interests also seem to look favourably on Islam, despite the fact that homosexuality is persecuted in most Muslim countries. 

In the US, the persecution overwhelmingly comes from evangelical Christians. American Muslims tend to live and let live.

There is no excuse for double-tapping Iranian schools, or what Texas evangelicals are trying to do to the Muslim population.

There's also the realization that what we allow Christian evangelicals to do to Muslims while they are in power, they can easily do to other groups of people. They're already turning their ire on East Asians, Indians, blacks, and people in blue states. 

Nobody’s saying evangelical authoritarianism isn't also shit, it is, but there does seem to be a double standard where some of the more vocal folks that fight so hard for gay people in the developed world seem willing to ignore many Islamic countries doing far, far worse.

Homophobia exists in the West, but we tend not to jail or execute people for being gay.



shavenferret said:
Tober said:

In general I don't like to group people together and trow them in a bucket with a sticker on it. Doesn't matter if it's about colour gender or what not.

So I'm not a fan of this bucket LGTBQABC+++ or something. It's like a gay person automatically lives in the same world as a transgender. So if not a fan of supporting under age sex hormone therapy, would somehow be also meaning having something against gay people because it's all LGBTQ issues. I find this nonsense.

About the topic at hand. I choose to not behave like a pastor waving fingers on other peoples culture and feel morally superior. Africa is a different continent. A huge one at that with plenty of different cultures within. There might be places that are homophobic, there might be places that are not. It's tricky to generalize when the place is so freaking huge.

I also don't understand what this 'black culture' is supposed to be. Does an Aboriginal have the same culture as a Zulu? Just because they both have dark skin?

Africa is notoriously homophobic because of their christianity/islamic influence, and also because 3rd world areas seem to be worse with this because they rely more on manual labor.  This manual labor stuff brings about a valuation of mental strength more than say Americans need, and so that's why they are worse over there.  I think that black people have taken these attitudes to a degree from their african descendants and thus we have their intolerance.  But nobody will say anything about it because of black people's historical legacy of oppression.   

Why describe Africans as homophobic just because they don't accept a certain culture?

Look at it this way, Over 200million people have bought GTA 5. Can we say same for UNCHARTED 1, Final fantasy VII, MGS4, etc? Whiles individuals have have choices so do societies too. 

In Africa polygamy is accepted, a man can marry a lot of women through traditional marriage or religion provided he has the means. Women in polygamous marriages respect their husband.  Polygamy offers the man the variety of women that we needs and a lot of men are comfortable with it. In the African society, the men mostly have upper-hand when it comes to marriage. 

We also practice the western type of marriage, one man one wife. Previously, men dominate and control affairs in these marriages but with the adoption of certain western cultures like women's rights, equal rights, western movies, and feminism, some women speak against certain treatments. Whiles some of these treatments are bad, some of them too are seen as exaggerations dues to certain demands they want from the man. Most men gets frustrated with these marriages and eventually divorce. Few results in physical violence but verbal insult exchanges are common. Where i live, it is not common to see a man killing a woman in a relationship. We have ways of resolving marriage or relational disputes, through respected friends, families, or the church. 

Some men secretly have side chicks aside their wives. sometimes when the wives get to know about it they go in for divorce but not the case with many. A lot of such men satisfy their families first before the side chicks. 

If you look at western countries like US and Canada, there are gender wars and this is my opinion. When there are disputes in heterosexually relationships one wants to inflict more pain on the other. That pain can be deadly or long lasting ruining lives. A man can kill a woman and spend the rest of his life in jail. A woman can seek divorce and take a good amount of money from the man. Many people who wants to avoid these resorts to same sex marriages. With time society have accepted same sex marriages and so a young person growing up can make up their minds which gender they wants to be. 

Situations lead people into adopting certain cultures.

Africa practices one-man-one-wife marriages and Polygamy. Western countries  also have one-man-one-wife and LGBTQ marriages.What works for one society does not necessarily have to work for the other.



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