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Forums - Politics - African attitudes towards sexuality, LGTQ+ stuff, and American blacks

I have one clear memory of something a teacher said at school. They said:
"To have a really strong unusual stance on something, and be often bringing it up, they really have to think about it a lot for some reason"

He was talking about the "I am not racist, but..." crowd. But it applies to so many things... There was a guy posting rants about "being people tricked into sex by men dressed as women in bars". It was something I had never thought about, or considered the possibilities. He seemed to have thought about it in vast detail. For some reason.

Just.a thought about this thread.



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curl-6 said:

Yeah it's always struck me as paradoxical that those who aggressively push for LGBT rights/welfare/interests also seem to look favourably on Islam, despite the fact that homosexuality is persecuted in most Muslim countries. 

Most of them don't care about Islam or even know anything about it.  They're just following the crowd and racking up performative points.  Yes, it's complete and total hypocrisy but it's far more important that they get likes online.



spynx said:

Why describe Africans as homophobic just because they don't accept a certain culture?

Look at it this way, Over 200million people have bought GTA 5. Can we say same for UNCHARTED 1, Final fantasy VII, MGS4, etc? Whiles individuals have have choices so do societies too. 

In Africa polygamy is accepted, a man can marry a lot of women through traditional marriage or religion provided he has the means. Women in polygamous marriages respect their husband.  Polygamy offers the man the variety of women that we needs and a lot of men are comfortable with it. In the African society, the men mostly have upper-hand when it comes to marriage. 

We also practice the western type of marriage, one man one wife. Previously, men dominate and control affairs in these marriages but with the adoption of certain western cultures like women's rights, equal rights, western movies, and feminism, some women speak against certain treatments. Whiles some of these treatments are bad, some of them too are seen as exaggerations dues to certain demands they want from the man. Most men gets frustrated with these marriages and eventually divorce. Few results in physical violence but verbal insult exchanges are common. Where i live, it is not common to see a man killing a woman in a relationship. We have ways of resolving marriage or relational disputes, through respected friends, families, or the church. 

Some men secretly have side chicks aside their wives. sometimes when the wives get to know about it they go in for divorce but not the case with many. A lot of such men satisfy their families first before the side chicks. 

If you look at western countries like US and Canada, there are gender wars and this is my opinion. When there are disputes in heterosexually relationships one wants to inflict more pain on the other. That pain can be deadly or long lasting ruining lives. A man can kill a woman and spend the rest of his life in jail. A woman can seek divorce and take a good amount of money from the man. Many people who wants to avoid these resorts to same sex marriages. With time society have accepted same sex marriages and so a young person growing up can make up their minds which gender they wants to be. 

Situations lead people into adopting certain cultures.

Africa practices one-man-one-wife marriages and Polygamy. Western countries  also have one-man-one-wife and LGBTQ marriages.What works for one society does not necessarily have to work for the other.

Sounds kinda like "live and let live" old school liberalism.



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Consider this: Poverty and intolerance reinforce one another. Where resources are scarce, competition increases, which frequently manifests as xenophobia or hostility toward out-groups. In turn, oppressed populations are condemned to under-resourced environments, perpetuating vast inequities in power, status, and economic mobility.

As well as: Black families in the U.S. have about one-twentieth the wealth of their White peers on average. For every dollar of wealth in White families, the corresponding wealth in Black households is five cents. Wealth inequality is not a function of work ethic or work hour difference between groups. Rather, the widening gap between the affluent and the poor can be linked to unjust policies and practices that favor the wealthy.

Sadly it seems tolerance is a luxury, reserved to high living standards. The lower the living standards, the higher the focus on survival of the fittest, which comes with ostracizing outliers to make yourself feel better.

It's human psychology:

The Psychology of Scarcity: When resources are scarce, competition increases. Groups enforce conformity to ensure unity, and outliers are viewed as resource drains or threats to the group's survival.

Shifting the Blame: Marginalized individuals and communities—those with low socioeconomic status (SES)—face disproportionately higher rates of ostracism. Targeting outliers acts as a defense mechanism, shifting the focus away from systemic hardships toward individual shortcomings.


But while that can explain 3rd world countries attitudes towards marginalized groups, it's no excuse for wealthy evangelicals trying to push their 'hatred' of outliers.

Anyway the solution is equality (and not just equality on paper, in practice) not ostracizing entire groups. That only reinforces the attitudes you want to change. Structural / systemic racism remain deeply entrenched in modern society, reinforced by blaming entire groups for being less tolerant to towards outliers.

In this case I agree with Justin Trudeau

https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/combatting-racism-discrimination/canada-anti-racism-strategy.html

Much better strategy than blaming people for human nature. Those pushing hatred on marginalized groups need to be addressed as well.




EricHiggin said:
spynx said:

Why describe Africans as homophobic just because they don't accept a certain culture?

Look at it this way, Over 200million people have bought GTA 5. Can we say same for UNCHARTED 1, Final fantasy VII, MGS4, etc? Whiles individuals have have choices so do societies too. 

In Africa polygamy is accepted, a man can marry a lot of women through traditional marriage or religion provided he has the means. Women in polygamous marriages respect their husband.  Polygamy offers the man the variety of women that we needs and a lot of men are comfortable with it. In the African society, the men mostly have upper-hand when it comes to marriage. 

We also practice the western type of marriage, one man one wife. Previously, men dominate and control affairs in these marriages but with the adoption of certain western cultures like women's rights, equal rights, western movies, and feminism, some women speak against certain treatments. Whiles some of these treatments are bad, some of them too are seen as exaggerations dues to certain demands they want from the man. Most men gets frustrated with these marriages and eventually divorce. Few results in physical violence but verbal insult exchanges are common. Where i live, it is not common to see a man killing a woman in a relationship. We have ways of resolving marriage or relational disputes, through respected friends, families, or the church. 

Some men secretly have side chicks aside their wives. sometimes when the wives get to know about it they go in for divorce but not the case with many. A lot of such men satisfy their families first before the side chicks. 

If you look at western countries like US and Canada, there are gender wars and this is my opinion. When there are disputes in heterosexually relationships one wants to inflict more pain on the other. That pain can be deadly or long lasting ruining lives. A man can kill a woman and spend the rest of his life in jail. A woman can seek divorce and take a good amount of money from the man. Many people who wants to avoid these resorts to same sex marriages. With time society have accepted same sex marriages and so a young person growing up can make up their minds which gender they wants to be. 

Situations lead people into adopting certain cultures.

Africa practices one-man-one-wife marriages and Polygamy. Western countries  also have one-man-one-wife and LGBTQ marriages.What works for one society does not necessarily have to work for the other.

Sounds kinda like "live and let live" old school liberalism.

Except that Africans are prejudiced people and don't live and let live.  The discrimination and unjust laws run opposite to that explanation.  It's pretty simple.



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SvennoJ said:

Consider this: Poverty and intolerance reinforce one another. Where resources are scarce, competition increases, which frequently manifests as xenophobia or hostility toward out-groups. In turn, oppressed populations are condemned to under-resourced environments, perpetuating vast inequities in power, status, and economic mobility.

As well as: Black families in the U.S. have about one-twentieth the wealth of their White peers on average. For every dollar of wealth in White families, the corresponding wealth in Black households is five cents. Wealth inequality is not a function of work ethic or work hour difference between groups. Rather, the widening gap between the affluent and the poor can be linked to unjust policies and practices that favor the wealthy.

Sadly it seems tolerance is a luxury, reserved to high living standards. The lower the living standards, the higher the focus on survival of the fittest, which comes with ostracizing outliers to make yourself feel better.

It's human psychology:

The Psychology of Scarcity: When resources are scarce, competition increases. Groups enforce conformity to ensure unity, and outliers are viewed as resource drains or threats to the group's survival.

Shifting the Blame: Marginalized individuals and communities—those with low socioeconomic status (SES)—face disproportionately higher rates of ostracism. Targeting outliers acts as a defense mechanism, shifting the focus away from systemic hardships toward individual shortcomings.


But while that can explain 3rd world countries attitudes towards marginalized groups, it's no excuse for wealthy evangelicals trying to push their 'hatred' of outliers.

Anyway the solution is equality (and not just equality on paper, in practice) not ostracizing entire groups. That only reinforces the attitudes you want to change. Structural / systemic racism remain deeply entrenched in modern society, reinforced by blaming entire groups for being less tolerant to towards outliers.

In this case I agree with Justin Trudeau

https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/combatting-racism-discrimination/canada-anti-racism-strategy.html

Much better strategy than blaming people for human nature. Those pushing hatred on marginalized groups need to be addressed as well.


All for it, good post



shavenferret said:

It seems like attitudes against LGBTQ stuff abound everyday in Africa.  I can point out the interview that we've gotten some yucks over.  And it's funny because they seem so backwards, and yet they are native black people and so we aren't supposed to be outraged.  So, whatever.  But, also, seems like american black people are homophobic as well, but just more mildly so.  But even liberals are supposed to be ok with this, because they are black.  It's like you can't talk about how crime is worse with black people on the news or their homophobic attitudes, because they have been victims in the past.  So now, they get a get-out-of-jail-free card to have the moral right to be this way, and white people aren't given the same thing.  

Liberal people logic makes you first calculate which group has been hurt worse in society:  gays or blacks?  If it's blacks, then there is no reason that we should hate on their attitudes.  We'll just try to listen to some rap in front of them or something to show that we like black culture.  I personally don't mind black culture, I just think that our acceptance of some things is kind of hypocritical because it's as if we are supposed to allow some people to be prejudiced but others cannot be.  

Your post seems full of genralizations about many differnet groups.  You generalized the following groups of people:

Afraicans (You claim they are backwards)

American Black People (You claim they are homophobic)

Liberals (You claim they calculate they claim righteousness of merit based solely on historical events)

We (You claim we listen to rap music to show we like them and that we allow some people to be prejudiced and other not to be)

I want to assert that you can not accurately base entire groups of people on the actions of some people within that group.  I assert that you can find any people in any group that have any, all or none of the beliefs you stated.  Its easier for us as humans to catalog risks based on labels or affilations but that is the same thing a bigotry. We, as in all of us, have the capacity to discern the charater of individuals on their own merits and not the merits of people who may look like them or have be from a similar place.  I am horrified that someone may make the assertions you made about me because I may fall into one of those general catagories.  I know liberal black from Afraican living in America who are not accurately discribed by any of you assertions.  While it may seem long winded at first, I encourage you to become more surgical with how you identify people.  People will look at a white person, for example and say all sorts of thing about them based on historical actions of people who look like them.  And those assertions are just a bigoted and overly broad. 



CosmicSex said:
shavenferret said:

It seems like attitudes against LGBTQ stuff abound everyday in Africa.  I can point out the interview that we've gotten some yucks over.  And it's funny because they seem so backwards, and yet they are native black people and so we aren't supposed to be outraged.  So, whatever.  But, also, seems like american black people are homophobic as well, but just more mildly so.  But even liberals are supposed to be ok with this, because they are black.  It's like you can't talk about how crime is worse with black people on the news or their homophobic attitudes, because they have been victims in the past.  So now, they get a get-out-of-jail-free card to have the moral right to be this way, and white people aren't given the same thing.  

Liberal people logic makes you first calculate which group has been hurt worse in society:  gays or blacks?  If it's blacks, then there is no reason that we should hate on their attitudes.  We'll just try to listen to some rap in front of them or something to show that we like black culture.  I personally don't mind black culture, I just think that our acceptance of some things is kind of hypocritical because it's as if we are supposed to allow some people to be prejudiced but others cannot be.  

Your post seems full of genralizations about many differnet groups.  You generalized the following groups of people:

Afraicans (You claim they are backwards)

American Black People (You claim they are homophobic)

Liberals (You claim they calculate they claim righteousness of merit based solely on historical events)

We (You claim we listen to rap music to show we like them and that we allow some people to be prejudiced and other not to be)

I want to assert that you can not accurately base entire groups of people on the actions of some people within that group.  I assert that you can find any people in any group that have any, all or none of the beliefs you stated.  Its easier for us as humans to catalog risks based on labels or affilations but that is the same thing a bigotry. We, as in all of us, have the capacity to discern the charater of individuals on their own merits and not the merits of people who may look like them or have be from a similar place.  I am horrified that someone may make the assertions you made about me because I may fall into one of those general catagories.  I know liberal black from Afraican living in America who are not accurately discribed by any of you assertions.  While it may seem long winded at first, I encourage you to become more surgical with how you identify people.  People will look at a white person, for example and say all sorts of thing about them based on historical actions of people who look like them.  And those assertions are just a bigoted and overly broad. 

No sir, I'm not the first one to comment on African American prejudice.  Just as it is fair for them to comment about white people's prejudice.  That's only fair.

There are many, many, many laws against lgbtq groups in Africa.  There is much female circumzion in Africa, the practice happens every day.  

Are you saying that making generalizations is wrong?  Judging someone for their good and bad deeds isn't wrong.  If we cause problems then it would be only fair to judge someone negatively so.  I'm sure that Africans living in America don't go around cutting off their daughters clitorises or get into a group and beat up the flamboyantly gay people.  They have adapted.    I'm also sure that there are many africans that aren't prejudiced people.  But the laws are problematic, and the society is as well.  Until people start complaining, then nothing will be done.  Passive people, and even worse, people like you who say that we shouldn't shame them for their bad behavior are part of the problem.  



Furthermore, it’s not just certain religions, ethnic groups, and nations that I have a dislike for. It is my own government as well. I follow the first amendment audit movement. The highlight of my brief activism was when I got officer E fired from his off duty job when he got stupid in me. I prefer libertarian politics and am midway between liberal and conservative. But the public servants had better uphold and defend our constitution or they’re gonna get a lawsuit. And I care nothing wrong with judging our government as doing wrong. I see nothing wrong with making generalizations about the government. I can and will do the same for other groups. If they don’t want the criticism then they shouldn’t act wrongly.



shavenferret said:

Furthermore, it’s not just certain religions, ethnic groups, and nations that I have a dislike for. It is my own government as well. I follow the first amendment audit movement. The highlight of my brief activism was when I got officer E fired from his off duty job when he got stupid in me. I prefer libertarian politics and am midway between liberal and conservative. But the public servants had better uphold and defend our constitution or they’re gonna get a lawsuit. And I care nothing wrong with judging our government as doing wrong. I see nothing wrong with making generalizations about the government. I can and will do the same for other groups. If they don’t want the criticism then they shouldn’t act wrongly.

I am simply implying that you need to be flexible with how you define people at large.  You have to be able to understand that a government and its laws are not a reflection of all the people that live in an area.  You stated that much already about yourself and the government here in the United States.  Just because stupidity provades our society doesn't mean that all Americans are stupid.  Doesn't mean that you can't call out stupidty in our society.  Its a balancing act and even though it requires us to understand complexities before us, we are more than capable as human beings of meeting that challange.  Bigoty against gay people by governments in those countries is obviously not equivilant to saying that Afraicans are bigots.  In fact, the there are many people there who share your disdain for such bigoty and we are all better served by empowering and highlighting those individuals as we shame the unfair laws.  We ought to be doing both at the same time.