I respect neil even more for having the balls to do it. People look at joel as a hero, but fail to understand his past deeds, and the kind of world theyre living in. He honestly couldn't have gone out in better fashion. He wqs badass to be honest. He looked at her straight in the eye and said go ahead, do what you gotta do, in typical joel fashion. He went out like a man. Didn't beg , cower away and fold. He saw his end and looked back at his time with ellie, his last memories. Yet people want some fairy tale ending, not realising they got it

It is subtle, yes, like when she finds a magazine on Bill's place, see a naked man, jokes about it but doesn't care about it at all.

It was a very important topic in the DLC, and most people that played the game had access to the DLC because it was part of the Remastered edition that released for the PS4 when the game was 1 year old, aside from all the people that got it for the PS3 before that, the PS4 version made the game go from 7M on PS3 to over 20M sales.

The point stands, pretty much everyone that played it before TLoU Part 2 knew it, and nobody was complaining at all about it, it wasn't even a focal point of discussion on Part 2 itself either, Joel's death and Abby's strength was, before the game had even released, so no, people were not in fact worried about anything woke, it was only a word they could unite around to hate the game, some because of console warring, some to get views, and from there on everything Sony released, before it was even released, has gone throught that idiocy.

Have you played Part 2, btw?

Joel admits to murdering random people to survive to Ellie in the first game when they see people getting murdered them while hiding, he has actual torture techniques he shows during the game too.

Joel was a survivor, everyone around him knew it, his brother went away from him because of that too before the first game, and yes, he went out without fear or showing regret for doing what he thought he needed to do.

I didnt mind most of the game however Joel could have been handled better, instead he got the Disney Star Wars treatment of killing off old characters.

I understand people view him as a cold blooded killer however in that world, most people were, and many can relate to his feelings, thats what made it special, it was such a unique situation where both choices were bad however 1 had to be made. I personally would have preferred to see him go out as a hero or at the very least, go down fighting, however that wasn't to be and felt like abit of a waste of a great opportunity, all so they can include a new Protagonist.

Interesting to see where the story goes from here. 

One of the themes of the game was always that people are actually more dangerous than the infected creatures. And yes, it was a woman. A woman who had trained and prepared for years to exact her revenge on the killer of his father. She lived in a base that had a professional grade gym and training facilities and they raised cattle and other livestock, so protein was not an issue. She was a bit of a gym bro, that's all. She wanted to be the most efficient member of her group as she could, plus she had personal reasons to be as strong as possible. Still looks like a woman to me.

I can agree about Joel being taken a little too soon, I would have liked to play as him for at least a little bit first. But I guess they wanted the whole thing to be seen from the perspective of other people than him, the whole thing was about perspective. And they wanted to set the emotional tone early on so that we could get to the whole road to revenge story.

Yeah, I didn't notice. I mean, the part you're talking about, where she isn't interested in the magazine, I didn't take that to mean she was into girls because well, not many straight young girls that age would be into dude-porn, anyway. But I did laugh, because I knew what her sexuality would later be thanks to the controversy.

As for the sequel, the above ruined my interest. And then threads like this obliterated the plot so it's like, what's the point? I may get it down the line, anyway. We'll see. 

Well, if you didn't want to know the plot coming to a thread tagged with spoilers in the title was a given, lol.

Anyway, the game plays great, a lot better than the original, Ellie is way more agile than Joel, and that is cooked into her gameplay, and it's still one of the best crafted games out there, the attention to detail to everything is really something else.

You're blind. There are parts in the game where she looks 🔥 

I mean, I kinda agree that her sexual orientation is not that obvious even after playing the DLC, nor do I think it's even important a discussion point for TloU1. 

So I actually think her being gay is a surprise for most of the player base, and only on retrospect do the situations in TloU1 hint at this. But at the same time, I don't think it's surprising because again her sexuality isn't even a point of topic in TloU1.

i also wouldn't worry so much about this thread seemingly spoiling more of the game than you may have anticipated. Honestly, the parts being talked about here are like a drop in the water in regards to the interesting, exciting, and shocking moments in the game. There are actual gameplay moments you'll experience that you'll find more exciting I'm pretty sure of that.

I honestly don't need another game at the moment (have a lot of serious problems going on right now)... but you guys are legit making a case lol. Perhaps I'll hunt down a used physical copy this summer and give it a go.