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Forums - Gaming - Nvidia reveals DLSS 5 , essentially applies AI filter to games in real time.

Chrkeller 2 days ago
curl-6 said:
Chrkeller said:

I struggle with this comment.  I dont like MTX but also dont have a problem with it.  I own over 200 games and have been gaming for 40 years.  I have bought 0 MTX.  MTX is super easy to avoid.  

Games with microtransactions are very often specifically designed to pressure and annoy the player into spending money, so even if you don't spend you have have to put up with friction that's designed to hassle you. Publishers have invested a lot of time, research, and money over the years into the optimal way to push people to pay up, it's well documented, and they have no ethical qualms about it. 

Heck, this is how bad it was even back in 2016:

I've been gaming for many years across hundreds of games and never once bought a microtransaction too, but I have very often noticed the game trying to manipulate me into spending, and while spending may be optional, the pressure is not.

The pressure probably is real.  Honestly I don't know.  I flatly refuse to buy games loaded with MTX, I filter my purchasing decisions accordingly.

I used to love Dead or Alive and Street Fighter.  Haven't bought either since 3 and 4.  I avoid MTX filled games like the plague.

I think the best way to send a message is with my wallet.



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”
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curl-6 2 days ago
Chrkeller said:
curl-6 said:

Games with microtransactions are very often specifically designed to pressure and annoy the player into spending money, so even if you don't spend you have have to put up with friction that's designed to hassle you. Publishers have invested a lot of time, research, and money over the years into the optimal way to push people to pay up, it's well documented, and they have no ethical qualms about it. 

Heck, this is how bad it was even back in 2016:

I've been gaming for many years across hundreds of games and never once bought a microtransaction too, but I have very often noticed the game trying to manipulate me into spending, and while spending may be optional, the pressure is not.

The pressure probably is real.  Honestly I don't know.  I flatly refuse to buy games loaded with MTX, I filter my purchasing decisions accordingly.

I used to love Dead or Alive and Street Fighter.  Haven't bought either since 3 and 4.  I avoid MTX filled games like the plague.

I think the best way to send a message is with my wallet.

Oh I agree completely, I'm right there with you man. Big turn off to me when a game prominently features them.



BraLoD 2 days ago



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Otter 2 days ago
Otter said:

Updated the OP with Digital Foundary response/address video:

Will probably watch it tomorrow

Finally got round to watching it and the digital foundry follow up video is definitely a good watch and there's a lot of balanced takes.

Ultimately this was a terrible consumer facing reveal from Nvidia and the fact they thought the Grace comparison was the shining example of the technology reflects a disconnect between the higher ups/tech leads and their audience. None the less, I think its mostly that.  A bad reveal. 

The technology itself is super early and will be refined but it shouldn't of been shown of in this state which so clearly altered the presentation of characters. The end result shouldn't look like AI, it should just look like the game with better lighting. Lots to be dissected down the road & when its actually released but we'll cross that bridge once we get to it



Chrkeller 2 days ago

The Wii, if memory serves, was a god awful reveal too. Wasn't Nintendo pretending to play musical instruments while nothing worked? Bad reveal doesn't mean bad product.



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”
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Chrkeller 2 days ago
curl-6 said:
Chrkeller said:

The pressure probably is real.  Honestly I don't know.  I flatly refuse to buy games loaded with MTX, I filter my purchasing decisions accordingly.

I used to love Dead or Alive and Street Fighter.  Haven't bought either since 3 and 4.  I avoid MTX filled games like the plague.

I think the best way to send a message is with my wallet.

Oh I agree completely, I'm right there with you man. Big turn off to me when a game prominently features them.

Anytime I am interested in a game, and I pull it up on Steam and I can't (within 30 seconds) figure out what version is what; it gets deleted from my wish list.  SF5 is the poster child for this.    



“Consoles are great… if you like paying extra for features PCs had in 2005.”
CaptainExplosion 2 days ago
curl-6 said:
ConciousMan said:

I have to agree. There were plenty of people against industrial revolution and computing revolution, as well. Some of people are afraid of change. There's no way to progress if the humanity won't experiment and try new things. That's natural part of growth IMO.

Not all advances are beneficial; we as a society would have been better off if they'd been more pushback to the adoption of stuff like asbestos, lead, cigarettes, DDT, High Fructose Corn Syrup, Agent Orange, or in terms of gaming microtransactions and pay-to-win.

That last point is especially important, because you know who encouraged Activision to push microtransactions? EPSTEIN.



Norion 2 days ago
ConciousMan said:
Norion said:

This is an incredibly ignorant thing to say. I've already gone into this with Curl earlier in the thread so won't go in depth again here but there are tons of useful applications of the technology, including in extremely important areas like the medical field. 

I have to agree. There were plenty of people against industrial revolution and computing revolution, as well. Some of people are afraid of change. There's no way to progress if the humanity won't experiment and try new things. That's natural part of growth IMO.

Anyway, returning to the topic. DLSS 5 in current form is no longer an upscaling tech, but something like the re-renderer. Even I, a great supporter of GeForce brand dislike the way how Nvidia promotes this tech. They should rename neural rendering tech a new thing like Reflex is, which is a part of tech stack of RTX brand.

Right the technology clearly has massive potential and is already quite powerful so if someone has a big issue with how it's being used right now the best thing to do is push for reasonable regulation. This isn't my exact viewpoint but pushing for some sort of public ownership of AI systems to make it so this society warping technology isn't largely in the hands of certain companies and billionaires and that humanity at large can benefit from it on their own terms is the type of position that should be more common than it is.

Chrkeller said:
Norion said:

This is an incredibly ignorant thing to say. I've already gone into this with Curl earlier in the thread so won't go in depth again here but there are tons of useful applications of the technology, including in extremely important areas like the medical field. 

Agreed.  Advances in cancer research will take leaps and bounds because of AI.  AI will advance multiple areas of science and there will be massive benefits.  I am using it quite a lot now.  
That is completely right. The advancements in medical research and scientific research in general will be immense. Even self driving cars becoming the norm alone will save a lot of lives and prevent a ton of injuries every year. For my usage I'm increasingly using it as a Google substitute and lately there's often cases where it saves me some time of having to look through a bunch of search results.
curl-6 said:
Norion said:

This is an incredibly ignorant thing to say. I've already gone into this with Curl earlier in the thread so won't go in depth again here but there are tons of useful applications of the technology, including in extremely important areas like the medical field. 

Saying somebody is ignorant if they disagree with you is uncalled for and not helpful.

It's not an ignorant statement cause he disagrees, it's an ignorant statement cause it's completely false. The evidence is so overwhelming of the benefits of the technology that implying that all the investment in it isn't leading to anything useful is flat earth level ignorance at this point and should get called out.

Last edited by Norion - 1 day ago

TruckOSaurus 2 days ago
Chrkeller said:

The Wii, if memory serves, was a god awful reveal too. Wasn't Nintendo pretending to play musical instruments while nothing worked? Bad reveal doesn't mean bad product.

That was the E3 2008 presentation which was after the Wii was released. The Wii reveal in 2006 went very well.

Last edited by TruckOSaurus - 2 days ago

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CaptainExplosion 2 days ago
Norion said:
ConciousMan said:

I have to agree. There were plenty of people against industrial revolution and computing revolution, as well. Some of people are afraid of change. There's no way to progress if the humanity won't experiment and try new things. That's natural part of growth IMO.

Anyway, returning to the topic. DLSS 5 in current form is no longer an upscaling tech, but something like the re-renderer. Even I, a great supporter of GeForce brand dislike the way how Nvidia promotes this tech. They should rename neural rendering tech a new thing like Reflex is, which is a part of tech stack of RTX brand.

Right the technology clearly has massive potential and is already quite powerful so if someone has a big issue with how it's being used right now the best thing to do is push for reasonable regulation. This isn't my exact viewpoint but pushing for some sort of public ownership of AI systems to make it so this society warping technology isn't largely in the hands of certain companies and billionaires and that humanity at large can benefit from it on their own terms is the type of position that should be more common than it is.

Chrkeller said:

Agreed.  Advances in cancer research will take leaps and bounds because of AI.  AI will advance multiple areas of science and there will be massive benefits.  I am using it quite a lot now.  

That is completely right. The advancements in medical research and scientific research in general will be immense. Even self driving cars becoming the norm alone will save a lot of lives and prevent a ton of injuries every year. For my usage I'm increasingly using it as a Google substitute and lately there's often cases where it saves me some time of having to look through a bunch of search results.
curl-6 said:

Saying somebody is ignorant if they disagree with you is uncalled for and not helpful.

It's not an ignorant statement cause he disagrees, it's an ignorant statement cause it's completely false. The evidence is so overwhelming of the benefits of the technology that implying that all the investment in it isn't leading to anything useful is flat earth level of ignorance at this point and should get called out.

AI is only benefiting billionaires, making them richer. They don't care that most people will soon be too poor to buy their products. THAT is ignorance.