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Forums - Movies & TV - Blu Ray turns 20

Zippy6 said:

Will we get another low-cost physical format again? Or is this the end of the road?

I somehow doubt it. Diminishing returns means we're unlikely to see any display resolutions higher than 4K become commonplace. While 4K does offer a visible improvement, it's nowhere near as much as the jump from SD to full HD, and 8K is really only useful with really big TVs. Each step up from VHS to DVD to Blu-ray to 4K Blu-ray was each a doubling in vertical resolution, but TV size matters in terms of density of lines per vertical inch of screen. Maybe if 85" TVs become the norm I could see 8K catching on in some circles, but in general the average TV size has grown at a slower rate than resolutions have. For anything like 55" or smaller, 1080p is adequate and 4K is about the best you're going to get.

Going from VHS to DVD was huge. In addition to doubling the resolution, the format offered better clarity in general being on an optical disc and everything. I was blown away the first time I saw DVD in action at Walmart's display kiosk for it, and noticed a major improvement on my old 19" Toshiba CRT TV when I got a DVD player of my own. Going from DVD to Blu-ray was a pretty big step as well... if you had a 1080p TV to benefit from it. DVD was fine on the much smaller tube TVs that were still the norm, and if most people were fine with tube TVs and we never moved past that then DVD would probably have never needed to be replaced. But going to bigger screens with higher resolutions meant we arguably needed a new format for home video. Upscaled DVD on HDTV was fine, but there were noticeable artifacts from blowing up an SD image that much (as there is when upscaling anything SD to an HD screen), and a Blu-ray running on an HDTV looked way better.



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Blu Ray definitely had its advantages. Blu Ray was the default format for 3 generations of PlayStations. 2 generations of Xbox. Wii U discs also were based on Blu Ray technology (though officially not Blu Rays).

Sony took a write down on their Blu Ray operations years ago which means they acknowledge the venture won't be profitable. Still it has provided stability for the physical market in the HD era even as physical media falls by the wayside.

I no longer buy physical games for PS4 or PS5 but I do buy old PS3 games on disc when I can track them down. I also have a small collection of Blu Ray movies and TV shows.



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Please Watch/Share this video so it gets shown in Hollywood.

Shadow1980 said:
Zippy6 said:

Will we get another low-cost physical format again? Or is this the end of the road?

I somehow doubt it. Diminishing returns means we're unlikely to see any display resolutions higher than 4K become commonplace. While 4K does offer a visible improvement, it's nowhere near as much as the jump from SD to full HD, and 8K is really only useful with really big TVs. Each step up from VHS to DVD to Blu-ray to 4K Blu-ray was each a doubling in vertical resolution, but TV size matters in terms of density of lines per vertical inch of screen. Maybe if 85" TVs become the norm I could see 8K catching on in some circles, but in general the average TV size has grown at a slower rate than resolutions have. For anything like 55" or smaller, 1080p is adequate and 4K is about the best you're going to get.

Going from VHS to DVD was huge. In addition to doubling the resolution, the format offered better clarity in general being on an optical disc and everything. I was blown away the first time I saw DVD in action at Walmart's display kiosk for it, and noticed a major improvement on my old 19" Toshiba CRT TV when I got a DVD player of my own. Going from DVD to Blu-ray was a pretty big step as well... if you had a 1080p TV to benefit from it. DVD was fine on the much smaller tube TVs that were still the norm, and if most people were fine with tube TVs and we never moved past that then DVD would probably have never needed to be replaced. But going to bigger screens with higher resolutions meant we arguably needed a new format for home video. Upscaled DVD on HDTV was fine, but there were noticeable artifacts from blowing up an SD image that much (as there is when upscaling anything SD to an HD screen), and a Blu-ray running on an HDTV looked way better.

85" is still far too small for 8K to make any sense. You need to be 3.5ft / 1m or closer with 85 degree fov to see 8K on an 85" screen. That would be an 85" PC monitor lol. 8K only makes sense in VR.

For an 85" 4K TV you need a viewing angle of 43 degrees to see the benefit, at 8 ft. Only if you sit closer than 5 ft you get some benefit from higher than 4K.

So unless VR movies catch on for 8K per eye headsets, 8K disc format is pointless. However bigger discs can also fit entire seasons instead of 62 discs lol



Just googled the largest disc set, it's only $140, $2.25 per disc, bargain!
https://gruv.com/products/murder-she-wrote-the-complete-series-blu-ray-_av13032125


Sony could use 4K blu-ray or BDXL for storage next gen. One quad layer disc can hold up to 128GB, but perhaps it's cheaper just to press multiple single layer discs. GT7 came on 2 blu-rays (while the game has grown further to 130GB-150GB now)

It could also be that game installs will shrink with more data getting streamed from the server like FS2024.



SvennoJ said:
Shadow1980 said:

I somehow doubt it. Diminishing returns means we're unlikely to see any display resolutions higher than 4K become commonplace. While 4K does offer a visible improvement, it's nowhere near as much as the jump from SD to full HD, and 8K is really only useful with really big TVs. Each step up from VHS to DVD to Blu-ray to 4K Blu-ray was each a doubling in vertical resolution, but TV size matters in terms of density of lines per vertical inch of screen. Maybe if 85" TVs become the norm I could see 8K catching on in some circles, but in general the average TV size has grown at a slower rate than resolutions have. For anything like 55" or smaller, 1080p is adequate and 4K is about the best you're going to get.

Going from VHS to DVD was huge. In addition to doubling the resolution, the format offered better clarity in general being on an optical disc and everything. I was blown away the first time I saw DVD in action at Walmart's display kiosk for it, and noticed a major improvement on my old 19" Toshiba CRT TV when I got a DVD player of my own. Going from DVD to Blu-ray was a pretty big step as well... if you had a 1080p TV to benefit from it. DVD was fine on the much smaller tube TVs that were still the norm, and if most people were fine with tube TVs and we never moved past that then DVD would probably have never needed to be replaced. But going to bigger screens with higher resolutions meant we arguably needed a new format for home video. Upscaled DVD on HDTV was fine, but there were noticeable artifacts from blowing up an SD image that much (as there is when upscaling anything SD to an HD screen), and a Blu-ray running on an HDTV looked way better.

85" is still far too small for 8K to make any sense. You need to be 3.5ft / 1m or closer with 85 degree fov to see 8K on an 85" screen. That would be an 85" PC monitor lol. 8K only makes sense in VR.

For an 85" 4K TV you need a viewing angle of 43 degrees to see the benefit, at 8 ft. Only if you sit closer than 5 ft you get some benefit from higher than 4K.

So unless VR movies catch on for 8K per eye headsets, 8K disc format is pointless. However bigger discs can also fit entire seasons instead of 62 discs lol



Just googled the largest disc set, it's only $140, $2.25 per disc, bargain!
https://gruv.com/products/murder-she-wrote-the-complete-series-blu-ray-_av13032125


Sony could use 4K blu-ray or BDXL for storage next gen. One quad layer disc can hold up to 128GB, but perhaps it's cheaper just to press multiple single layer discs. GT7 came on 2 blu-rays (while the game has grown further to 130GB-150GB now)

It could also be that game installs will shrink with more data getting streamed from the server like FS2024.

One of the biggest missed opportunities of Blu-ray and UHD Blu-ray is mass storage of SD (and even HD for UHD) video. There exist in some regions huge amounts of TV episodes on a couple of discs, but it's not very commercially viable compared to digital distribution in streaming and purchases. 

There are German Blu-rays of TMNT (1987 series) for the first 7 seasons. Three separate releases with tons of episodes on a disc, in SD. Sadly, they skipped the last 3 seasons AKA "The Red Sky Era". 



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 161 million (was 73 million, then 96 million, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million, then 156 million)

PS5: 122 million (was 105 million, then 115 million) Xbox Series X/S: 38 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million. then 48 million. then 40 million)

Switch 2: 120 million (was 116 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

SvennoJ said:

85" is still far too small for 8K to make any sense. You need to be 3.5ft / 1m or closer with 85 degree fov to see 8K on an 85" screen. That would be an 85" PC monitor lol. 8K only makes sense in VR.

For an 85" 4K TV you need a viewing angle of 43 degrees to see the benefit, at 8 ft. Only if you sit closer than 5 ft you get some benefit from higher than 4K.

So unless VR movies catch on for 8K per eye headsets, 8K disc format is pointless. However bigger discs can also fit entire seasons instead of 62 discs lol



Just googled the largest disc set, it's only $140, $2.25 per disc, bargain!
https://gruv.com/products/murder-she-wrote-the-complete-series-blu-ray-_av13032125


Sony could use 4K blu-ray or BDXL for storage next gen. One quad layer disc can hold up to 128GB, but perhaps it's cheaper just to press multiple single layer discs. GT7 came on 2 blu-rays (while the game has grown further to 130GB-150GB now)

It could also be that game installs will shrink with more data getting streamed from the server like FS2024.

A friend of mine bought an 85" TV a few months back and I figured if I could notice a difference on my 55" TV going from 1080p to 4K, then you could notice something on TV that big for 8K. If you really can't unless it's right up in your face, then I guess 4K really is the end of the road.

Also, I forgot Murder, She Wrote lasted as long as it did. I watched it occasionally when I was a kid, but it looks like it was on TV from when I was four years old and ended when I was sixteen. Overall, the adventures of Jessica Fletcher ran 264 episodes plus four TV movies. But that huge set looks like a common issue for long series even on DVD. Star Trek TNG's complete box set is 48 discs on DVD and 41 discs on Blu-ray. So, looks like four episodes on average per disc for both shows on Blu-ray, or about three hours worth of show. So yeah, TV shows on physical home really could have benefited from a disc large enough to store at least twice as many episodes at a given quality.

Last edited by Shadow1980 - 11 hours ago

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Art by Hunter B

In accordance to the VGC forum rules, §8.5, I hereby exercise my right to demand to be left alone regarding the subject of the effects of the pandemic on video game sales (i.e., "COVID bump").

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If Blu Ray turns 20 I feel old. :S



Shadow1980 said:

A friend of mine bought an 85" TV a few months back and I figured if I could notice a difference on my 55" TV going from 1080p to 4K, then you could notice something on TV that big for 8K. If you really can't unless it's right up in your face, then I guess 4K really is the end of the road.

Also, I forgot Murder, She Wrote lasted as long as it did. I watched it occasionally when I was a kid, but it looks like it was on TV from when I was four years old and ended when I was sixteen. Overall, the adventures of Jessica Fletcher ran 264 episodes plus four TV movies. But that huge set looks like a common issue for long series even on DVD. Star Trek TNG's complete box set is 48 discs on DVD and 41 discs on Blu-ray. So, looks like four episodes on average per disc for both shows on Blu-ray, or about three hours worth of show. So yeah, TV shows on physical home really could have benefited from a disc large enough to store at least twice as many episodes at a given quality.

4K can still be so much better before going to 8K, same for 1080p. Blu-ray often looks better in motion than 4K streaming and that's also heavily compressed. Bandwidth is much more important now than resolution. 4K blu-ray on 1080p TV looks better than Blu-ray on the same TV.

Consider uncompressed 1080p 24 fps at 8 bit is 1.11 Gbps -> streams at 5-10 mbps.
Uncompressed 4K 24 fps at 10 bit HDR is 5.56 Gbps -> streams at 15-25 mbps.

Blu-ray streams at 20-40 mbps
4K UHD blu-ray streams at 92-144 mbps

Digital cinema streams at 175-250 mbps. (newer equipment can do up to 500 mbps)


Anyway 4K is the end of the road for human vision in the living room until the screen occupies more than 45 degrees of your fov. Which is 2.3m / 7.5ft or closer to a 85" TV.  So unless we get this

4K is more than plenty for the living room.

For PC you can get ultra wide curved monitors like
https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/samsung-57-8k-ultra-hd-240hz-1ms-gtg-curved-va-led-freesync-gaming-monitor-ls57cg952nnxza-black-white/17160882fwxRoCfnwQAvD_BwE

57-inch display with 7680 x 2160 native resolution

You would have to sit between 2-3 ft from that thing to appreciate 8K, over 5ft and you won't be able to tell the difference between 4K and 8K.

You will still be able to tell the difference through lower aliasing and up scaling artifacts, super sampling works. You don't need an 8K display for better visuals, you need high bandwidth, higher native render resolutions first. Not at today's GPU prices :/





HDDVD and BR had more similarities than differences. Its a shame there weren't more hybrid players that could play both.



Playing around with PC games on a 65-inch OLED, sitting back 6 feet; I can't tell a difference between 1440p and 4k. Any differences are very small, at best. The idea of 8k makes me giggle. I just cannot fathom it being perceptible in-home use. Reminds me of pointillism, at some point enough dots (e.g. pixels) means it looks like a real picture. I think we have hit that point for sure at 4k. 1080p to 1440p is noticeable. I am happy with 1440p, 4k is fine. Anything over, nah, no point.



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