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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - In hindsight, was it always smart for Nintendo to never prioritize or pursue 3rd party support?

 

Was it always smart for Nintendo to never prioritize or pursue 3rd party support?

Yes, it was smart all along 34 72.34%
 
No, if Nintendo pursued 3... 13 27.66%
 
Total:47
IcaroRibeiro said:
Hardstuck-Platinum said:

and yet they have a monopoly on the market?

On the Japanese Market? They have, well if we ignore Mobile gaming market which is in fact the biggest gaming segment in Japan 

Only about 7 million gamers plays primarily on PCs in Japan, and another 7 mi plays on both PCs and Consoles

That's said PC gaming has grown substantially in the last years, so maybe this can take away some of Switch 2 sales. Still there is no way for Switch 2 selling less than 25 million, 3DS sales are the absolute floor for this console and the odds of it selling above 30 million are really strong 

If they had a monopoly then surely the Switch would've been the base platform of development for monster hunter Wilds? Since most sales of monster hunter are from japan? Why would Capcom allow their franchise which is hugely successful in Japan to miss the system that has a monopoly? 3DS did a lot better than people realise, considering it had no new gimmick like the dual screens of the OG DS or the Switch. Saying 3DS sales are the floor is severely downplaying it's success. Remember the 3DS was much cheaper than the Switch 2 is going to be. Much cheaper. 



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Hardstuck-Platinum said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

On the Japanese Market? They have, well if we ignore Mobile gaming market which is in fact the biggest gaming segment in Japan 

Only about 7 million gamers plays primarily on PCs in Japan, and another 7 mi plays on both PCs and Consoles

That's said PC gaming has grown substantially in the last years, so maybe this can take away some of Switch 2 sales. Still there is no way for Switch 2 selling less than 25 million, 3DS sales are the absolute floor for this console and the odds of it selling above 30 million are really strong 

If they had a monopoly then surely the Switch would've been the base platform of development for monster hunter Wilds? Since most sales of monster hunter are from japan? Why would Capcom allow their franchise which is hugely successful in Japan to miss the system that has a monopoly? 3DS did a lot better than people realise, considering it had no new gimmick like the dual screens of the OG DS or the Switch. Saying 3DS sales are the floor is severely downplaying it's success. Remember the 3DS was much cheaper than the Switch 2 is going to be. Much cheaper. 

By no means Monster Hunter sales came primarily from Japan. World sales in Japan were about 5.5 million (including Iceborn). Worldwide the sales already exceed 25 million. But anyway, don't worry Wilds will easily be ported to Switch 2

3DS sold 25 million having competition with PS Vita, while also lacking home console IPs from Nintendo like 3D Mario, Mario Kart and Zelda. Switch 2 has no competition in handheld market, will have all third parties relevant in Japan (including Monster Hunter which is a given to be released in Switch 2) and the strength of Nintendo first party title that historically belongs to consoles. It's going to sell 30 million units 



Hardstuck-Platinum said:
archbrix said:

There can always be arguments made about who makes the most revenue vs profit vs market share but the thing that Nintendo has that no one else can compete with is the strength of its intellectual properties. No company on earth can compare to that other than Disney... and even it can only compete due to the acquisitions it's made over the years, like Star Wars and Marvel. Mario has been more recognizable than Mickey Mouse for over 30 years now. Even among Americans.

Third party support is always important, but Nintendo is in a far better position to stand the test of time than Playstation, Valve, or anyone else in the games industry. Why? Because even when it slips up here and there with its hardware, Nintendo has maintained such a high level of quality regarding its key franchises and making its games enjoyable. So far, anyway.

Mario Kart 8, Super Mario 3D and Yoshi's Wooly World world were very high quality titles but it didn't save the Wii U. Even if Zelda breath of the wild came exclusively to the Wii-U it wouldn't have saved it. Quality first party titles alone cannot save your hardware, and Nintendo is in the hardware business. The Switches success has massively inflated everyone's sense of Nintendo's strength in this industry. When the Switch 2 comes out and it doesn't do anything even close to the OG Switches numbers, people will come back down to earth

I didn't say that quality first party titles alone could save hardware at all.  What I said was, even when Nintendo makes a console that few people want, like the WiiU, it is still consistent with making great games for it and that maintains a positive perception of the company.  So when Nintendo follows up with a system that people do want, like the Switch, it's able to achieve stellar sales because people can always count on great games, which sustains the company's success.

The only complete embarrassment of a system that Nintendo has produced so far is the Virtual Boy and as long as it avoids something like that again, its legacy IPs will always be fine.  And much to your dismay, Switch 2 doesn't have to achieve PS2 level sales again to continue this pattern.



It's easy to say they didn't in retrospect because of the success of the Switch, but the only consistent success Nintendo ever had was with their handhelds.

They stopped having success with their home consoles because of the lack of third-party support. While Nintendo's first-party titles have always dominated the best-sellers charts on their systems, there was a time when third parties rose to prominence and did well on their consoles. The NES & SNES both had many hit titles from companies like Capcom, Konami, Square, and Enix. But those major third parties effectively bugged out and moved to PlayStation in Gen 5, largely because of the decision to stick with cartridges. While the N64 did have the support of several Western companies, with a very successful partnership with Rare as well as several modest hits from Acclaim (Turok) and THQ (WWF & WCW games), it barely had any support from the major Japanese third parties. The loss of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest in particular was devastating (the latter more so in Japan). FF7 is notable in that its release marked the point where the PS1 really took off.

If the N64 retained the level of third-party support the NES & SNES had and kept those big titles, it likely would have easily won its generation seeing as the PS1 started off slow and the N64 was, at least in the U.S., strong out of the gates. PlayStation may have been a strong competitor, but Nintendo would likely have continued having very strong home console sales. Imagine if the N64 had FF7, Resident Evil (the belated, downgraded port of RE2 notwithstanding), Metal Gear Solid, Dragon Quest, Tomb Raider, and so on. Imagine if the N64's successor had freakin' GTA.

Without the full backing of major third parties, Nintendo's home consoles struggled, with the only hit they had after the SNES being the Wii. With only one hit out of four generations, it was pretty clear that Nintendo needed a change of plans. Their home consoles couldn't consistently do well, but their handhelds did, so they made the Switch a best-of-both-worlds machine: a powerful handheld designed to also function as a home console. Putting their eggs in one basket was risky, but it turned out to be the right decision. Had Nintendo done more to keep strong third-party support on their home consoles, the trajectory of that market would have been very different, and we probably wouldn't have ever had the Wii, Wii U, and Switch. We'd probably be on, well, whatever they would have named a hypothetical Gen 9 console that competed directly with the PS5.



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BasilZero said:
padib said:

Obviously not 

Yikes.

I'm just pulling your leg. Don't concern yourself with what I own.
By the way, the switch 2 will have even more 3rd party support, as companies can't afford not to anymore, and due to us hitting a graphical limit soon. In the past they could try to bully Nintendo into their terms but nowadays games are so expensive to make, it's complete sabotage to themselves not to launch on all platforms. So good news for you, you'll be able to play final fantasy and most primary 3rd party IPs on the go on Nintendo ;)

All this because Nintendo stayed true to itself and didn't cave in. You will get the best of both worlds (Nintendo IPs and 3rd party flagships) on one hybrid console, you can celebrate 🙌

Last edited by padib - on 12 January 2025

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IcaroRibeiro said:
Hardstuck-Platinum said:

If they had a monopoly then surely the Switch would've been the base platform of development for monster hunter Wilds? Since most sales of monster hunter are from japan? Why would Capcom allow their franchise which is hugely successful in Japan to miss the system that has a monopoly? 3DS did a lot better than people realise, considering it had no new gimmick like the dual screens of the OG DS or the Switch. Saying 3DS sales are the floor is severely downplaying it's success. Remember the 3DS was much cheaper than the Switch 2 is going to be. Much cheaper. 

By no means Monster Hunter sales came primarily from Japan. World sales in Japan were about 5.5 million (including Iceborn). Worldwide the sales already exceed 25 million. But anyway, don't worry Wilds will easily be ported to Switch 2

3DS sold 25 million having competition with PS Vita, while also lacking home console IPs from Nintendo like 3D Mario, Mario Kart and Zelda. Switch 2 has no competition in handheld market, will have all third parties relevant in Japan (including Monster Hunter which is a given to be released in Switch 2) and the strength of Nintendo first party title that historically belongs to consoles. It's going to sell 30 million units 

The Switch 2 will also have competition from devices like steam deck. Those devices are much better competition than the Vita. I meant monster Hunter as a series overall, not just the sales ratio of MHW between the nations. The 3DS was cheaper than the competition, but the Switch 2 will be equal or maybe even more expensive.  

archbrix said:
Hardstuck-Platinum said:

Mario Kart 8, Super Mario 3D and Yoshi's Wooly World world were very high quality titles but it didn't save the Wii U. Even if Zelda breath of the wild came exclusively to the Wii-U it wouldn't have saved it. Quality first party titles alone cannot save your hardware, and Nintendo is in the hardware business. The Switches success has massively inflated everyone's sense of Nintendo's strength in this industry. When the Switch 2 comes out and it doesn't do anything even close to the OG Switches numbers, people will come back down to earth

I didn't say that quality first party titles alone could save hardware at all.  What I said was, even when Nintendo makes a console that few people want, like the WiiU, it is still consistent with making great games for it and that maintains a positive perception of the company.  So when Nintendo follows up with a system that people do want, like the Switch, it's able to achieve stellar sales because people can always count on great games, which sustains the company's success.

The only complete embarrassment of a system that Nintendo has produced so far is the Virtual Boy and as long as it avoids something like that again, its legacy IPs will always be fine.  And much to your dismay, Switch 2 doesn't have to achieve PS2 level sales again to continue this pattern.

All of this applies to Sony as well though, so it's moot. They have quality first party + third party, and yes Switch 2 will get much better third party support than Switch does now, but it will be too little too late because of things like the Steam deck existing. 

Also, "to my dismay"? You think my feelings are involved in this? I just genuinely don't see what Switch 2 has going for it. Doesn't have a revolutionary gimmick like the OG switch. Doesn't have a low price like the 3DS or DS did. Doesn't have the best performance. What is it's selling point? It's not about my emotions. 



padib said:

 So good news for you, you'll be able to play final fantasy and most primary 3rd party IPs on the go on Nintendo ;)

All this because Nintendo stayed true to itself and didn't cave in. You will get the best of both worlds (Nintendo IPs and 3rd party flagships) on one hybrid console, you can celebrate 🙌

I'm already doing that on my Switch OLED.

I'll buy third party games on Switch as long as Nintendo does b/c, the moment they stop b/c, is the moment I stop buying third parties, there's better value to buying third parties on PC, Playstation and Xbox (better performance, visuals and achievements).

Its the reason why I never bought third party games on Nintendo 64, Gamecube, Wii and WiiU, Nintendo's only advantage in me getting third parties is the portability option.

Anyways, Nintendo's going to eventually budge as well just like Sony and Microsoft - cant wait for when the time comes.

Last edited by BasilZero - on 12 January 2025

BasilZero said:
 

I'm already doing that on my Switch OLED.

I'll buy third party games on Switch as long as Nintendo does b/c, the moment they stop b/c, is the moment I stop buying third parties, there's better value to buying third parties on PC, Playstation and Xbox (better performance, visuals and achievements).

Its the reason why I never bought third party games on Nintendo 64, Gamecube, Wii and WiiU, Nintendo's only advantage in me getting third parties is the portability option.

Anyways, Nintendo's going to eventually budge as well just like Sony and Microsoft - cant wait for when the time comes

You're not, I'm talking about main FF entries like VII remake and XVI.

 What do you mean by budge? You mean stop making consoles?

 Yes obviously you won't get pc-level graphics at 300$ portable. 👏

Last edited by padib - on 12 January 2025

padib said:

You're not, I'm talking about main FF entries like VII remake and XVI.

 What do you mean by budge? You mean stop making consoles?

 Yes obviously you won't get pc-level graphics at 300$ portable. 👏

Yes I am - you dont have a Switch so you likely dont realize that Final Fantasy I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, X-2, and XII are all already on the Switch and are all main FF entries.

Sony and Microsoft arent stopping making consoles, eventually all parties will release games outside of their home ecosystem.

Nintendo's already had Super Mario Galaxy on the Nvidia Shield in China and they've expanded their IP to mobile devices.

Eventually legacy games will become available. I can see something like NSO becoming available on PC in the future.



BasilZero said:

Yes I am - you dont have a Switch so you likely dont realize that Final Fantasy I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII, IX, X, X-2, and XII are all already on the Switch and are all main FF entries.

Sony and Microsoft arent stopping making consoles, eventually all parties will release games outside of their home ecosystem.

Nintendo's already had Super Mario Galaxy on the Nvidia Shield in China and they've expanded their IP to mobile devices.

Eventually legacy games will become available. I can see something like NSO becoming available on PC in the future.

Nope, I mean new mainline entries, we all know all FFs up until XIII non-inclusive are on switch, no need to own one to know that. By again I do own one though that's none of your business nor relevant to anything we're talking about here.

But I have good news for you:

Microsoft is already bowing out of the race, bad news for you though they will keep making consoles, but on the bright side for you they won't be playing the exclusives game anymore.

Sony already started porting their games to PC and eventually will no longer have a reason to make consoles with exclusives, but they will continue to make mini-PCs like MS will.

As for Nintendo, sorry to break it to you but they won the console war, in great part thanks to what is mentioned in OP, Nintendo is now able to support an exclusive console all by themselves, beautiful isn't it? Anyway if this is not to your delight, and you hope for them to stop, I have a recommendation for you: you can stop begrudgingly buying Nintendo consoles. This will make a statement to the executives at Nintendo that someone stopped buying their consoles. They may even fold due to the immense pressure your boycott may have. By the time you look like this, I'll give you a call to see how your dreams are fairing of Nintendo budging out of the market.

good luck!