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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Will the Switch 2 finally be powerful enough and popular enough to get Nintendo all the top games?

To be honest, I don't see the Switch 2 getting all the big most popular AAA games that PS5/SX are getting. The Switch 2 will likely still be quite a bit underpowered compared to those consoles where it would be too difficult to get it to work on Switch 2 for some developers to see it as worth it. For example, it's highly unlikely GTA 6 will ever come to Switch, that game seems to be using every ounce of power the PS5/SX uses for it to be feasible to work on a handheld.

However, I think this time around 3rd party support should be better than the Switch 1, we already have confirmation that the full COD games will come to Switch 2 day in day with the other consoles which is certainly huge, as you can make the case that COD is the most popular franchise right now.

Also, developers this time around now trust making a game for the Switch 2 a lot more now since the Switch concept has proven to be a major success so developers will likely begin developing games right away for Switch 2 unlike how it was for when the Switch 1 first launched since many developers were uncertain/doubtful it would be a success.

We're also approaching a time in gaming where the cost of game development is becoming unsustainably high, this may benefit the Switch 2 as well since developers will be forced to release their games on as many platforms as possible to make up for the astronomical game development costs. So I think that will help Switch 2 get more 3rd party support as well. We've already seen a big developer like Square Enix commit to bringing more games to the Switch just to make up for the rising game development costs.

There's also rumors that are suggesting the Switch 2 to be quite impressive in specs for a handheld, with the rumors suggesting it'll be somewhat close to a Series S in power which can definitely help make porting next gen games much easier to Switch 2 if the rumors are true.

However, despite all this I don't necessarily think the Switch 2 will get every big 3rd party game, there's also still a persistent perception of Nintendo that 3rd party games don't sell as well and that might push away some developers from making games for the Switch 2, that perception is definitely dying in the Switch era but it still exists to some developers. One notable one is EA where they still refuse to bring their biggest games over like Madden, Battlefield, new Need For Speed games, and more.



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Chrkeller said:
Pemalite said:

You cannot assert that your statements are "fact" based on "leaks and rumors". - They are unsubstantiated. - Leaks often end up being wrong.
Remember when the Switch had the endless NX leaks and it was going to be Radeon powered? Yeah. Exactly.

As for the bandwidth issue itself... 112GB/s is fine.
It's not a console that is chasing 1440P like the Series S... It's not a console that is chasing 2160P/4k like the Xbox One X/Playstation 4 Pro/Playstation 5/Xbox Series X.
It's a console that will likely try and obtain 1080P and if it does end up failing that target... Tegra does have DLSS which is the best form of frame reconstruction in the entire industry.

The real-world bandwidth of a modern Tegra would be roughly inline with the Playstation 4 once you start to account for Delta Colour Compression... The DCC jump to Pascal gave an extra 20% and the jump to Volta is another 20% and Ampere takes that further again... So 112GB/s would be around 150GB/s - 160GB/s or more.

Larger and faster caches, increased registers... Did you not ever wonder how the Switch was able to get Playstation 5 ports like Hogwarts Legacy despite having Ram bandwidth equivalent to a Playstation 3? It's about architectural efficiency over raw numbers. Delta Colour Compression allowed the Switch to punch above it's weight, even though it's DCC is not as advanced as current nVidia DCC implementations.

And then we can compare it to other handhelds like the Asus Rog Ally with 120GB/s which is running current console ports like Cyberpunk 2077, Hogwarts Legacy, Horizon Forbidden West and more.


I think you may just be surprised on what you can do with "just" 112GB/s and the current spate of AMD powered handhelds which are factually less efficient than nVidia's hardware and are turning in some amazing results.

112GB/s is not going to be the issue you think it is when current handhelds are doing just fine with that bandwidth.

It will not hold back ports.

Radek said:

Switch 2 RDR2 port day one, and GTA V please

The irony is... The current Switch can run GTA5. That game has spanned 3x console generations remember.

Noted.

HoloDust said:

I honestly don't know anything about how difficult is to translate CPU code from X86 to ARM - but from the amount of games on Switch, that are also on Steam, I'm guessing it's not THAT difficult.

Sure, it's always easier to have the same code and just turn the sliders down. And then there's CoDs on Wii, and especially Star Wars: Force Unleashed on Wii, which had another studio making it from the ground up - it's projection of ROI that will decide in the end (CoDs and SW:FU sold really good).

It's not hard. We need to remember that despite x86 being CISC on the exterior, it's actually RISC on the interior, so code can translate very easily.
And with Billions of ARM devices on the planet, there are significant tools to aid in development and porting.

Binary translation exists as well, which historically allowed Intel X86 Atom chips in phones/tablets to execute ARM compiled code, it came at a slight performance hit, but it was an impressive achievement... I think I recall nVidia going down that road at some point, not sure if they abandoned that.

Transmeta is another one that comes to mind with their code morphing technology.

I have a 3050, 4070 and a 4090.  I can factually tell you memory bandwidth is a bottleneck.

And I'm not going to be surprised.  I've played dozens of games on a big screen via a 3050, 4070 and a 4090.  

The memory bandwidth of the switch 2 is going require numerous downgrades.  On a big screen via a dock it will be very noticeable.  It will be a bottleneck like I said on page 1.

If games are ported will be a function of time, money and effort.  I suspect it will be hit or miss based on the developer.  Could I see some developers not wanting to port because of the memory bandwidth issue?  Absolutely.  Could I see some developers putting in the effort?  Absolutely.

How people feel about those downgrades is an opinion.  I fully support anyone and everyone's preferred gaming preferences.  

But I'm not going to pretend a low memory bandwidth doesn't impact ease of porting, because it does.  And Hogwarts is a great example.  It isn't a port of the original version.  It had to be customized due to hardware limitations.  Not all developers are going to put in the effort.  

Hardware constraints 100% will have an impact on ports.  There is absolutely no denying this.  

Just to add to your comments. I think a big thing is that the Switch2 will have a big battery within its casing. Stand alone home consoles do no have that. This limits acceptable heat and therefore power delivery. Including docked. It's not just GPU, CPU, RAM or other factors. Just having a battery in there will ask for a compromise.



Chrkeller said:

I have a 3050, 4070 and a 4090.  I can factually tell you memory bandwidth is a bottleneck.

And I'm not going to be surprised.  I've played dozens of games on a big screen via a 3050, 4070 and a 4090.  

"big screen". - You are likely pushing settings that are untenable for those parts.
Again... I suggest you watch the evidence/video I presented earlier.. You can't claim I am wrong just because anecdotal "opinions".

I presented evidence.

Chrkeller said:

The memory bandwidth of the switch 2 is going require numerous downgrades.  On a big screen via a dock it will be very noticeable.  It will be a bottleneck like I said on page 1.

-If- it's a mobile form factor, it will ALWAYS require downgrades to port games to it.

You cannot take a console like the Playstation 5 with a TDP of 180W or the Xbox Series X with a TDP of 200W and expect it to run games at 15-25W without concessions.
Laws of physics does come into play.

The point is... 100-150GB/s is "good enough" for the resolutions and settings a mobile device will target.

Chrkeller said:

If games are ported will be a function of time, money and effort.  I suspect it will be hit or miss based on the developer.  Could I see some developers not wanting to port because of the memory bandwidth issue?  Absolutely.  Could I see some developers putting in the effort?  Absolutely.

Developers will always have a reason not to do something, it's all well and good to talk hypotheticals.

Case in point... Xbox Series S/X does actually miss out on games and it's not due to hardware capabilities.

Chrkeller said:

But I'm not going to pretend a low memory bandwidth doesn't impact ease of porting, because it does.  And Hogwarts is a great example.  It isn't a port of the original version.  It had to be customized due to hardware limitations.  Not all developers are going to put in the effort.  

The point I am trying to convey is that Hogwarts is running on a console with PS3 levels of bandwidth... But is a game that released on a console with over 22x the memory bandwidth of the Switch.

And they still made it work.

The next gen Switch, whatever hardware it's going to have isn't going to have that same delta in hardware differences, which means easier porting.

Hogwarts runs fine on AMD powered handhelds with 88-120GB/s of bandwidth and looks absolutely stellar... The Rog Ally X can get over 60fps.


Chrkeller said:

Hardware constraints 100% will have an impact on ports.  There is absolutely no denying this.  

Up to a point.

Game engines are extremely scalable these days, especially as game engines are still designed with 8th gen hardware limits in mind.

Tober said:

Just to add to your comments. I think a big thing is that the Switch2 will have a big battery within its casing. Stand alone home consoles do no have that. This limits acceptable heat and therefore power delivery. Including docked. It's not just GPU, CPU, RAM or other factors. Just having a battery in there will ask for a compromise.

Mobile chips have gotten more efficient and capable over the years, lets not forget.

The Tegra in the Switch released in 2015... Things have improved on every front in the last decade.






--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

By the time the switch 2 launches, the ps5 would have been out for 4.5 / 5 years. This is a long time in terms of technology being on the market and advancements made since.

We all know the switch 2 will be like the first, and have a portable device. Right? So thee question is, is it possible to have a hand held with the power of of ps5 or a ps 4.7, considering ps5 would have been out for nearly 5 years by the time switch 2 launches.

Then factor in past launch prices, and cost of gpu/cpu and other tech being a lot cheaper. You'd think/expect the switch 2 to be nearly on par with a ps5, definitely have more advanced tech than a ps4 pro and hopefully better than a series s.

Regardless, when i buy the switch2, if i'm fortunate enough, i want it for nintendo games by nintendo. I'm not concerned about other third party. There's a certain charm that only comes from nintendo, and it's a breath of fresh air.



Switch launched 4 years into PS4/XBO gen. It did ok.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

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Pemalite said:
Chrkeller said:

I have a 3050, 4070 and a 4090.  I can factually tell you memory bandwidth is a bottleneck.

And I'm not going to be surprised.  I've played dozens of games on a big screen via a 3050, 4070 and a 4090.  

"big screen". - You are likely pushing settings that are untenable for those parts.
Again... I suggest you watch the evidence/video I presented earlier.. You can't claim I am wrong just because anecdotal "opinions".

I presented evidence.

Chrkeller said:

The memory bandwidth of the switch 2 is going require numerous downgrades.  On a big screen via a dock it will be very noticeable.  It will be a bottleneck like I said on page 1.

-If- it's a mobile form factor, it will ALWAYS require downgrades to port games to it.

You cannot take a console like the Playstation 5 with a TDP of 180W or the Xbox Series X with a TDP of 200W and expect it to run games at 15-25W without concessions.
Laws of physics does come into play.

The point is... 100-150GB/s is "good enough" for the resolutions and settings a mobile device will target.

Chrkeller said:

If games are ported will be a function of time, money and effort.  I suspect it will be hit or miss based on the developer.  Could I see some developers not wanting to port because of the memory bandwidth issue?  Absolutely.  Could I see some developers putting in the effort?  Absolutely.

Developers will always have a reason not to do something, it's all well and good to talk hypotheticals.

Case in point... Xbox Series S/X does actually miss out on games and it's not due to hardware capabilities.

Chrkeller said:

But I'm not going to pretend a low memory bandwidth doesn't impact ease of porting, because it does.  And Hogwarts is a great example.  It isn't a port of the original version.  It had to be customized due to hardware limitations.  Not all developers are going to put in the effort.  

The point I am trying to convey is that Hogwarts is running on a console with PS3 levels of bandwidth... But is a game that released on a console with over 22x the memory bandwidth of the Switch.

And they still made it work.

The next gen Switch, whatever hardware it's going to have isn't going to have that same delta in hardware differences, which means easier porting.

Hogwarts runs fine on AMD powered handhelds with 88-120GB/s of bandwidth and looks absolutely stellar... The Rog Ally X can get over 60fps.


Chrkeller said:

Hardware constraints 100% will have an impact on ports.  There is absolutely no denying this.  

Up to a point.

Game engines are extremely scalable these days, especially as game engines are still designed with 8th gen hardware limits in mind.

Tober said:

Just to add to your comments. I think a big thing is that the Switch2 will have a big battery within its casing. Stand alone home consoles do no have that. This limits acceptable heat and therefore power delivery. Including docked. It's not just GPU, CPU, RAM or other factors. Just having a battery in there will ask for a compromise.

Mobile chips have gotten more efficient and capable over the years, lets not forget.

The Tegra in the Switch released in 2015... Things have improved on every front in the last decade.




I don't know what to tell you.  I mean we can keep dancing but I'm standing by my hands on hundred plus hours.

The S2 likely isn't going to match my 3050 + 16 gb ram + 12 gen i5.  

Are modern games playable on the 3050?  Sure.  But low resolution, inconsistent fps and meh settings.  And BTW when playing modern games on the 3050 the computer ran hot and the battery didn't last long.  On the 15.4 inch screen games look solid.  When popped on my 55 OLED via HDMI games left a to be desired.  

I wouldn't say the 3050 ran modern games well, it was a bit rough.  It had 16 ram and a solid processor.  The problem was memory bandwidth, LIKE I SAID ON PAGE 1.  

If someone is looking to play AAA I would not recommend a 3050.  It is acceptable today, I'm not convinced it will be in 3 to 6 years, it clearly gets dinged by limited memory bandwidth and I would be concerned about future games running on tbe GPU.  

I'm standing by my experience.  I have a Switch, ps5, 3050, 4070 and 4090.  I know roughly what to expect from the S2.  The S2 will absolutely 100% no question struggle playing some AAA games.  Some developers will not put in the time, as a result of  hardware constraints, LIKE I SAID ON PAGE 1.  

Everything I've posted is sound, logical and based on first hand experience.  Deal with it.  

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 01 September 2024

i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

Yeah yeah everything you're saying is the same discourse as 8 years ago. 8 years and 145 million consoles sold later. And? 2050. 3050. Whatever. It's a Nintendo handheld they are never short on 3rd parties or games and always sell. S2 will be no different.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

Leynos said:

Yeah yeah everything you're saying is the same discourse as 8 years ago. 8 years and 145 million consoles sold later. And? 2050. 3050. Whatever. It's a Nintendo handheld they are never short on 3rd parties or games and always sell. S2 will be no different.

I never said the S2 wouldn't sell well.  I never said it wouldn't get many third party games.

All I ever said is some heavy games will struggle due to hardware constraints, with some developers not bothering.  



i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

The nice advantage is that the Switch 2 will have good company in its performance-tier in ways the Switch didn't. 

The Switch 2 should be roughly on par with iGPU's found in AMD/Intel APU's of this generation (890m, Meteor Lake XE), as well as Apple's Silicon of course. When Switch released iGPU driver support wasn't anywhere near what it is now, so the PC gaming market was mainly relegated to requiring a dGPU, which very much outclassed the Switch, even at the lowest end. 

Then you have a Series S as a much closer base standard than even the initial Xbox One. 

Support probably still won't be "all the top games" but the hardware justification is far less solid than it was in the past. Games that run at 1080p-1440p 30fps on the Series S shouldn't be too hard to run at 720p-900p on a Switch 2 with similar performance. 

The question is less about "powerful enough" and "popular enough" and more on what the third party attach ratio will look like. If most people with a Switch 2 still buy their third party titles on other platforms then it might not matter how powerful or popular the Switch 2 is.

So many obstacles to porting games between platforms have been eliminated over the last 15 years. It's mainly a matter of getting a minimum sales forecast to exceed the marketing costs and costs of production more than the porting costs. 



sc94597 said:

The question is less about "powerful enough" and "popular enough" and more on what the third party attach ratio will look like. If most people with a Switch 2 still buy their third party titles on other platforms then it might not matter how powerful or popular the Switch 2 is.

I mean, a substantial portion of Switch owners also had a PS/Xbox and played their multiplats there, yet the Switch still got a ton of third party ports.