By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Scadutree fragment/Sekiro leveling design in Soulsborne. Thoughts?

 

Scadutree fragment/Sekiro leveling design...

I love it 1 16.67%
 
I like it 1 16.67%
 
I dislike it 1 16.67%
 
I hate it 1 16.67%
 
No opinion. 2 33.33%
 
Total:6

I wasn't a fan of the scadutree fragments in Shadow of the Erd tree, the level design was too obtuse and hard to navigate which made exploring for me un fun but I've got into Wo Long Fallen Dynasty where they have a similar design choice and now I get it.

In this game you kill enemies and plant flags around the map which raises your morale number which increases damage dealth and decreases damage taken. It allows you to be on par with enemies which have morale numbers too and essentially works as a smaller scale leveling system for you to grind to beat higher level enemies in the level or the end level boss. You need to defeat enemies to raise that number, the planted flags then cement you from falling to a lower number if you die, acting as a base level. It makes you explore the whole level, kill all enemies and is extremely satisfying. It works here because it's linear focused as where it fell short of the mark in Shadow of the Erd Tree because of the open world. And it's completely up to you to engage with the system, you can gain half the flags, get your number to something that seems high, try the end level and boss and then if you end up slamming your head up against the wall over and over you can go back, grab all the flags an dry the boss again. Nice and flexible. 

What From Soft should have done is tie scadutree fragments to enemy defeats as they did with the Hippos and in Sekiro where they tied leveling up to mini bosses. The system works and after playing Lies of P recently, getting disillusioned with the game in it's last quarter and just B lining it to bosses, it prevents that. It's a very simple yet effective way of making sure you are leveled for a boss but it comes with draw backs. For one the RPG mechanics seem less important. In sekiro it causes mini bosses to be difficulty blocks from leveling up to beat a main boss. In Shadow of the Erd tree it forces one to use a guide since the map is so overly complex. In Wo long fallen dynasty, it makes you wonder if you beat the boss because you essentially over leveled on morale. Would it be more of an accomplished to have beaten the boss with no morale for instance. 

What are your thoughts on Scadutree fragment design, it's been here for a while in the genre and other games like Shadow of Mordor but only really came to the surface after FromSoft added it in post game launch which made it feel new and unfamiliar. For me I think Sekiro got it the most right although they ripped out the RPG mechanics to make it work, maybe Souls games need to get away from the RPG leveling mechanics and adopt this system in full without having a toe in both waters. If Sekiro is anything to go by then it makes for a far more fair, far more balanced and clean experience.  

Last edited by LegitHyperbole - on 05 August 2024

Around the Network

I prefer the default systems in the base game, and in From's Soulsborne titles, but I understand why it was added to this particular DLC (so that the difficulty could be balanced somewhat independently of a player's base level).

In Sekiro it allowed them to better curate the difficulty to their own vision, and that did make certain boss fights incredibly tough, intense, and rewarding... but I just love the flexibility and inherent risk of the Souls-y 'anything you kill or sell contributes towards leveling up, but if you die twice without retrieving unspent points then you lose them all' system.



Machina said:

I prefer the default systems in the base game, and in From's Soulsborne titles, but I understand why it was added to this particular DLC (so that the difficulty could be balanced somewhat independently of a player's base level).

In Sekiro it allowed them to better curate the difficulty to their own vision, and that did make certain boss fights incredibly tough, intense, and rewarding... but I just love the flexibility and inherent risk of the Souls-y 'anything you kill or sell contributes towards leveling up, but if you die twice without retrieving unspent points then you lose them all' system.

Same, it's a tough call. They can't put their feet in both waters the same way again, it feels incredibly jank like sticky tape fixing a problem. Like you said though, they can tailor the difficulty to be balanced, nearly emilimate cheese and RNG luck defeats with the Sekiro system. 10% of players platinumed Sekiro, same as with BB and ER. It didn't stop that core base from "gitting gud". The freedom of the RPG mechanics though are a wonder of themselves, allowing for all sorts of shenanigans. Perhaps From Softs next mission should be to merge both systems into one seemless system that doesn't feel like a patch on a leaky hole. 



I think it worked really well in the context of the DLC, as it allowed them to design the enemies without being limited by the base game's restrictions. I also thought it added some nice incentive to explore the world. I had found all but a handful of the fragments without any outside help by the time I was heading into the game's last area. Since the normal leveling system was also still there, it didn't really take anything away from the basic systems either.



Darashiva said:

I think it worked really well in the context of the DLC, as it allowed them to design the enemies without being limited by the base game's restrictions. I also thought it added some nice incentive to explore the world. I had found all but a handful of the fragments without any outside help by the time I was heading into the game's last area. Since the normal leveling system was also still there, it didn't really take anything away from the basic systems either.

I done a new game plus run at the point I had 10 fragments, by the time I looped back around I just had to pick up the easy ones again to max out so I'll never know how the exploration went properly in this DLC. Surely it had to be a headache, no? I searched online for most of the ridiculously hard places to come across but you'd be stuck in one section so close to another section while the route to it is either ten feet away or across the other side of the map and you'd never know. It was extremely frustrating, Idk how people can enjoy or defend that over designed complexity of the map or how anyone got through it organically without having an aneurism. 



Around the Network
LegitHyperbole said:
Darashiva said:

I think it worked really well in the context of the DLC, as it allowed them to design the enemies without being limited by the base game's restrictions. I also thought it added some nice incentive to explore the world. I had found all but a handful of the fragments without any outside help by the time I was heading into the game's last area. Since the normal leveling system was also still there, it didn't really take anything away from the basic systems either.

I done a new game plus run at the point I had 10 fragments, by the time I looped back around I just had to pick up the easy ones again to max out so I'll never know how the exploration went properly in this DLC. Surely it had to be a headache, no? I searched online for most of the ridiculously hard places to come across but you'd be stuck in one section so close to another section while the route to it is either ten feet away or across the other side of the map and you'd never know. It was extremely frustrating, Idk how people can enjoy or defend that over designed complexity of the map or how anyone got through it organically without having an aneurism. 

I think I was at blessing level 18 before I looked up where the last few remaining fragments were, so I never found looking for them all that annoying. The last couple were certainly in places I never would have thought to look.



Darashiva said:
LegitHyperbole said:

I done a new game plus run at the point I had 10 fragments, by the time I looped back around I just had to pick up the easy ones again to max out so I'll never know how the exploration went properly in this DLC. Surely it had to be a headache, no? I searched online for most of the ridiculously hard places to come across but you'd be stuck in one section so close to another section while the route to it is either ten feet away or across the other side of the map and you'd never know. It was extremely frustrating, Idk how people can enjoy or defend that over designed complexity of the map or how anyone got through it organically without having an aneurism. 

I think I was at blessing level 18 before I looked up where the last few remaining fragments were, so I never found looking for them all that annoying. The last couple were certainly in places I never would have thought to look.

I kinda did the same. I had to use a map to go back and find the last few when I was really struggling with the final boss. It was a little bit tedious because I wasn't always sure which ones I'd already gotten, so I was revisiting some areas to eliminate any doubt.



Default system is best.



Chrkeller said:

Default system is best.

Ever think about giving Sekiro a second go? I know ya hate it but if you can get it to click, man, it's worth it. Wo Long Fallen dynasty is a hybrid between Sekiro and souls, ti's also good but nothing as close as Sekiro perfection. 



LegitHyperbole said:
Chrkeller said:

Default system is best.

Ever think about giving Sekiro a second go? I know ya hate it but if you can get it to click, man, it's worth it. Wo Long Fallen dynasty is a hybrid between Sekiro and souls, ti's also good but nothing as close as Sekiro perfection. 

I have it on my steam wishlist.  Might give it a go cheap.  I think I tried it on the ps4 which was 30 fps?  I wonder if 60 fps would help.

I also want to give armored core 6 a go.