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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Digital Foundry: Best graphics on Nintendo Switch

You talk about the gpu we know it's more modern but the reality is it was already maxed out at launch, devlopers squeezed every ounce of 360/ps3 so have a modern gpu with simiar power wasn't gonna do much. Then you discount the cpu which could help  in graphics while wiiu cpu couldn't.

Also it's impossible to know which is techically more demanding game one is going for realistic graphics so it will require more computing power, and  anyone with common sense will tell you need more calculations to make a living city then some barren wooded area. When you combine cpu and gpu last gen easily wins this isn't really debatable, even metro last developer  said it would be too much of challenge to get  runing on wiiu properly, and it would basically run like crap.

Anyway this has gone long enough will agree to disagree and just move on. Or come in join the beyond3d discussion, and function poster that actually reads chipworks die pics so he knows his stuff. 

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/can-we-really-judge-a-consoles-power-on-exclusive-games-or-multiplaform-games.63681/

Last edited by zeldaring - on 03 August 2024

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Mar1217 said:
Chrkeller said:

I agree with this.  For a 7 year old device it does well.  But it is a 7 year old device.  For me it's age is showing.  And a lot depends on how someone plays.  Low resolution on a small screen (e.g. portable) isn't a big deal at all.  A 30 inch TV, not a major deal.  It only becomes a problem on large screens.  I've played switch a lot on a 65 inch screen...  720p is awful.  

Edit

Part of the issue is the switch isn't even trading blows with the ps4, much less the ps5.  The hardware has aged, like all hardware does.  It doesn't help that TVs just keep getting bigger and bigger.  My next set might be a LG OLED 77 inch.    

I've got a solution for you there, why not go for a smaller screen size if you're that adamant against Switch usual input resolution ? 

This would inherently produce a better looking picture, especially if you're standing up close to it.

For example, my setup since 2017 has been pretty simple with a 32 inch 1080p TV in my bedroom where my gaming is done. Even a game that could output sub HD resolution wouldn't look too out of place there. 

And I'd imagine a LG 42inch OLED screen would have the benefit of being more presentable for the sucessor than a 77inch display except if you were to stand further from it to game.

Mostly because I also watch movies and game with a 4090.  A big screen is nice, especially since I expect the S2 to be targeting 1080p to 1440p.  



i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

curl-6 said:
LegitHyperbole said:

Those must be some awful ports but like you said, at least it's playable and there's something to be said about using your imagination although with that loss of quality you almost expect for them to charge less on Switch. It just seems worse with this game though cuase part of the sell is the open world and Hogwarts, it's a big chunk of the initial appeal.  If this was a game where the open world geography and assets take more of a back seat like Shadow of Mordor, Borderlands or Arkham knight, it'd be easier to overlook but I assume since you listed them they must be on the broken side.  

There were pretty terrible; Shadow of Mordor on PS3 not only runs below 20fps a lot of the time but has near constant audio stuttering that's painful to listen to. The original version of Ark on Switch was so bad it still boggles my mind that they saw fit to release it. Borderlands 2 on Vita is a very ambitious port but spends a lot of its time well below 20fps.

There should be laws in place against that. 



RedKingXIII said:

Why is Super Mario RPG on this video? It looks very basic to me. There's other 60 FPS games on the Switch that are more impressive.

They cover this in the video; John was impressed by how well they modernized the look of the SNES original while running at the system's maximum resolution of 1080p docked and 720p portable, at 60fps. 



LegitHyperbole said:
curl-6 said:

There were pretty terrible; Shadow of Mordor on PS3 not only runs below 20fps a lot of the time but has near constant audio stuttering that's painful to listen to. The original version of Ark on Switch was so bad it still boggles my mind that they saw fit to release it. Borderlands 2 on Vita is a very ambitious port but spends a lot of its time well below 20fps.

There should be laws in place against that. 

Yeah there are some severely downgraded ports out there. Black Ops III on PS3 comes to mind as well; it was cut back so far they removed the campaign entirely, while the multiplayer was just barely functional:



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Chrkeller said:
Mar1217 said:

I've got a solution for you there, why not go for a smaller screen size if you're that adamant against Switch usual input resolution ? 

This would inherently produce a better looking picture, especially if you're standing up close to it.

For example, my setup since 2017 has been pretty simple with a 32 inch 1080p TV in my bedroom where my gaming is done. Even a game that could output sub HD resolution wouldn't look too out of place there. 

And I'd imagine a LG 42inch OLED screen would have the benefit of being more presentable for the sucessor than a 77inch display except if you were to stand further from it to game.

Mostly because I also watch movies and game with a 4090.  A big screen is nice, especially since I expect the S2 to be targeting 1080p to 1440p.  

But you also said that you were disappointed of playing Switch games rendering at 720p on your current 65inch TV, meaning if you were to play Switch 2 games at a 1080p resolution on a bigger screen, it wouldn't change much of your current impression no ? 

Unless you think, the Switch successor new features and processing set will bring better IQ and anti-aliasing to erase a lackluster areas technically so even a 1080p resolution would have the benefit of looking pretty sharp



Switch Friend Code : 3905-6122-2909 

zeldaring said:

You talk about the gpu we know it's more modern but the reality is it was already maxed out at launch, devlopers squeezed every ounce of 360/ps3 so have a modern gpu with simiar power wasn't gonna do much. Then you discount the cpu which could help  in graphics while wiiu cpu couldn't.

Launch WiiU games don't look as good as games that released later in it's life cycle like Breath of the Wild. Fact.
WiiU was not "maxed" at launch.

The WiiU CPU was an Out-Of-Order triple core PowerPC design, it's more capable than the clockspeeds would otherwise imply when compared against other consoles like the Xbox 360 which used an In-Order PowerPC design.- Still can't touch a modern CISC/RISC core.

The biggest detriment to the WiiU's CPU was the lack of any decent SIMD instructions... The Xbox 360 had AltiVec. Aka VMX128.
Basically 2x 128bit SIMD per core (One for each thread), with a register file to keep them fed.
The WiiU? 2x 32bit SIMD, but could pack that into a single 64bit SIMD. Not great.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espresso_(processor)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_(processor)

So the WiiU cores were more efficient on a Mhz per Mhz basis, but once developers started to leverage the functional units, the WiiU's CPU wouldn't keep up.
It's GPU however... Was superior.

But don't take my word for it:
https://www.vg247.com/wii-u-cpu-is-less-powerful-than-xbox-360-ps3-causes-challenges-tecmo

zeldaring said:

Also it's impossible to know which is techically more demanding game one is going for realistic graphics so it will require more computing power, and  anyone with common sense will tell you need more calculations to make a living city then some barren wooded area. When you combine cpu and gpu last gen easily wins this isn't really debatable, even metro last developer  said it would be too much of challenge to get  runing on wiiu properly, and it would basically run like crap.

It's a misnomer to assert that a game going for realistic graphics is somehow more "demanding" on hardware than a game that doesn't.

A game like Links Awakening that deploys some impressive Depth-Of-Field Effects, Specular Highlights, Physically Based Material Shaders, dynamic lighting and shadowing... Is a technically more demanding and visual master piece than a hyper-realistic game like FarCry on the original Xbox.





zeldaring said:


Anyway this has gone long enough will agree to disagree and just move on. Or come in join the beyond3d discussion, and function poster that actually reads chipworks die pics so he knows his stuff. 

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/can-we-really-judge-a-consoles-power-on-exclusive-games-or-multiplaform-games.63681/

Stop with the false allegations. Don't assume I don't analyze chipwork die-shots, I've been in this game for a long time.

And thanks for providing that link to other peoples opinions on another forum... If you even cared to read what they stated, they have even agreed with my prior statements about the different nuances between platforms. I.E. The Playstation 3 being better than the Xbox 360.

It seems you are being *provided* the same information on both forums, but are unwilling to listen to anyone and are thus arguing for the sake of arguing. (Or just not reading/comprehending statements, I am still not entirely sure yet.)

curl-6 said:

Yeah there are some severely downgraded ports out there. Black Ops III on PS3 comes to mind as well; it was cut back so far they removed the campaign entirely, while the multiplayer was just barely functional:

Didn't the Xbox 360 port of Blacks Ops 3 also lack the campaign? Don't take my word on that.
But it would make sense to have both 7th gen versions castrated.

They were ultimately releases that shouldn't have happened at that point though.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Mar1217 said:
Chrkeller said:

Mostly because I also watch movies and game with a 4090.  A big screen is nice, especially since I expect the S2 to be targeting 1080p to 1440p.  

But you also said that you were disappointed of playing Switch games rendering at 720p on your current 65inch TV, meaning if you were to play Switch 2 games at a 1080p resolution on a bigger screen, it wouldn't change much of your current impression no ? 

Unless you think, the Switch successor new features and processing set will bring better IQ and anti-aliasing to erase a lackluster areas technically so even a 1080p resolution would have the benefit of looking pretty sharp

I think the S2 will easily render 1080p for 1st party games.  DLSS to 1440p is sharp enough.

Given Nintendo's cartoon art style I could see rendering at 1440p and upscale to 4k.

Third party I don't much care, I'm getting a 5090 when it launches.

Edit

Last edited by Chrkeller - on 03 August 2024

i7-13700k

Vengeance 32 gb

RTX 4090 Ventus 3x E OC

Switch OLED

Pemalite said:
zeldaring said:

You talk about the gpu we know it's more modern but the reality is it was already maxed out at launch, devlopers squeezed every ounce of 360/ps3 so have a modern gpu with simiar power wasn't gonna do much. Then you discount the cpu which could help  in graphics while wiiu cpu couldn't.

Launch WiiU games don't look as good as games that released later in it's life cycle like Breath of the Wild. Fact.
WiiU was not "maxed" at launch.

The WiiU CPU was an Out-Of-Order triple core PowerPC design, it's more capable than the clockspeeds would otherwise imply when compared against other consoles like the Xbox 360 which used an In-Order PowerPC design.- Still can't touch a modern CISC/RISC core.

The biggest detriment to the WiiU's CPU was the lack of any decent SIMD instructions... The Xbox 360 had AltiVec. Aka VMX128.
Basically 2x 128bit SIMD per core (One for each thread), with a register file to keep them fed.
The WiiU? 2x 32bit SIMD, but could pack that into a single 64bit SIMD. Not great.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espresso_(processor)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_(processor)

So the WiiU cores were more efficient on a Mhz per Mhz basis, but once developers started to leverage the functional units, the WiiU's CPU wouldn't keep up.
It's GPU however... Was superior.

But don't take my word for it:
https://www.vg247.com/wii-u-cpu-is-less-powerful-than-xbox-360-ps3-causes-challenges-tecmo

zeldaring said:

Also it's impossible to know which is techically more demanding game one is going for realistic graphics so it will require more computing power, and  anyone with common sense will tell you need more calculations to make a living city then some barren wooded area. When you combine cpu and gpu last gen easily wins this isn't really debatable, even metro last developer  said it would be too much of challenge to get  runing on wiiu properly, and it would basically run like crap.

It's a misnomer to assert that a game going for realistic graphics is somehow more "demanding" on hardware than a game that doesn't.

A game like Links Awakening that deploys some impressive Depth-Of-Field Effects, Specular Highlights, Physically Based Material Shaders, dynamic lighting and shadowing... Is a technically more demanding and visual master piece than a hyper-realistic game like FarCry on the original Xbox.





zeldaring said:


Anyway this has gone long enough will agree to disagree and just move on. Or come in join the beyond3d discussion, and function poster that actually reads chipworks die pics so he knows his stuff. 

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/can-we-really-judge-a-consoles-power-on-exclusive-games-or-multiplaform-games.63681/

Stop with the false allegations. Don't assume I don't analyze chipwork die-shots, I've been in this game for a long time.

And thanks for providing that link to other peoples opinions on another forum... If you even cared to read what they stated, they have even agreed with my prior statements about the different nuances between platforms. I.E. The Playstation 3 being better than the Xbox 360.

It seems you are being *provided* the same information on both forums, but are unwilling to listen to anyone and are thus arguing for the sake of arguing. (Or just not reading/comprehending statements, I am still not entirely sure yet.)

curl-6 said:

Yeah there are some severely downgraded ports out there. Black Ops III on PS3 comes to mind as well; it was cut back so far they removed the campaign entirely, while the multiplayer was just barely functional:

Didn't the Xbox 360 port of Blacks Ops 3 also lack the campaign? Don't take my word on that.
But it would make sense to have both 7th gen versions castrated.

They were ultimately releases that shouldn't have happened at that point though.

I told you ps3 vs 360 was always subjective they both have strength and weaknesses but overall the most techically impressive game was gtav and  most people agree, and there are more techically demanding games then ps3 exlusives that ran better on 360, over all they were very close  but what  ran games the best? it was  360 and that makes it the superior hardware. notice that no one at beyond 3d actually acts like you, and saying ps3 i more powerful is a fact, because in reality it's a subjective opinion, but you can't seem to accept that and move on. you were are trying to imply i don't  know what i'm talking when other people that know their stuff actually agree, so lets just leave at that and move on.

Any links or posts where you read the die shot and actually  one of the first people to get it correct like function? He actually provides proof.

I never said cartoony can't be more techically impressive of course they can, but it's impossible to compare these games on similar specced hardware because realistic graphics just require a higher computing budget for more detail on character models, and envoriments so a cell shaded game has more room for more effects. like if botw was not cell shaded and went for realistic graphics it would be impossible on wiiu.

As or wiiu not being maxed out after release i disagree mario kart 8 and black flag are proabably the best looking games graphically. As for the Cpu these developers are under NDA for them to complain that much, it must have been terrible and the ports show the results. as for GPU yea some developers talked it up but the results never really showed, like many would say its more modern and we will get better graphics but they could not pull it off.

anyway come post in the beyond3d thread cause no one really cares about this discussion over here, the other one is very active.

here is apost from AAA developer comparing wiiu best games to 360/ps3

Well better is really up to each taste.
The thing is, those games are not photorealists whereas most titles on other PS360 tried to be...
So you're spending your computation budget differently.

Anyway comparing images from different games is useless to compare performance and quality.
(Different art styles...)

Last edited by zeldaring - on 03 August 2024

This thread and many others Zeldalink derails.



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