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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Rumor/Leak for specific RAM and storage capacity of the Switch sucessor (Centro Leak)

Chrkeller said:

Maybe Perma can weigh in with his expertise.  I would assume if frequency is reduced by default bandwidth is as well.  I don't think one can be reduced and not the other.  I mean the frequency is basically instructions....  fidelity can't be faster than the instructions.

Maybe I'm thinking of it wrong.  

Bandwidth has a direct relationship to frequency and bus width.
You reduce memory frequency by 20%, you reduce bandwidth by 20%.

Frequency isn't instructions, frequency is what part of the electro-radiation spectrum it occupies. - The higher the frequency, the more the signal attenuates and degrades, but the higher the potential information throughput.

That's the dumbed down version of it anyway.

Ram frequency has been a bit stupid for years anyway.

When we went from EDO Ram to SD Ram we kept it as a "standard clock rate". - When we moved to DDR/DDR2/DDR3/DDR4/DDR5 we moved to transferring data on the rising and falling edges of the clock-cycle and so memory manufacturers with all their advertising-prowess started to inflate clock-speed numbers, I.E. DDR400 when it was actually running at 200Mhz internally.

padib said:

So the bandwidth, as far as I understand it, is directly related to the circuitry of the motherboard. The busses and the actual wires on the chips themselves define the bandwidth. This can't be changed after the parts are manufactured.

No.

HBM for example completely side-steps the motherboards limitations by leveraging an interposer.

The bus is determined by the memory chips individual interface size determined in bits and how many chips you have.

So you can have 8x 16bit memory chips operating at 1ghz and it would provide the *exact* same bandwidth as 4x 32bit memory chips operating at 1ghz.
Or you could have 16x 16bit chips operating at 500Mhz for the exact same result.

It's extremely flexible because memory transaction can be made extremely parallel. - Obviously on the other-side of the memory equation you need a memory controller that can handle all of that... And higher clocked Ram or wider memory buses tend to require a more complex memory controller to manage it all.

In short you can have DDR2 Ram be faster than GDDR6 Ram, it's completely dependent on how many memory chips you want in the end.

padib said:

The clock speed is defined by the electrical pulses and can be regulated at the electrical level, clocked higher or lower depending on what power is pumped into the processor. This one can change.

Not exactly.

Clock speed is determined by the electrical characteristics of the silicon itself, it's got a firm relationship with voltage and transistor type and size... Governed by Dennards Scaling Law and Moores Law as well as a variety of other factors like the patterning, defect rates, geometry of chip features and more.

Some chips have higher leakage than other chips as the main processing pipelines may lack appropriate levels of dark-silicon insulation which holds back frequency... And it doesn't matter how much power you pump into it, you won't get any faster.

padib said:

 Think of the bandwidth as the number of lanes on a highway, and the clock speed like the speed of the cars.

This is a false picture to paint.

The number of highway lanes would be the memory bus width defined in "bits". I.E. 64-bit wide or 128-bit wide is common for mobile devices these days.
Clockspeed is how fast the cars are traveling on said road.
And bandwidth is how many cars are on said road.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:
padib said:

So the bandwidth, as far as I understand it, is directly related to the circuitry of the motherboard. The busses and the actual wires on the chips themselves define the bandwidth. This can't be changed after the parts are manufactured.

No.

HBM for example completely side-steps the motherboards limitations by leveraging an interposer.

The bus is determined by the memory chips individual interface size determined in bits and how many chips you have.

So you can have 8x 16bit memory chips operating at 1ghz and it would provide the *exact* same bandwidth as 4x 32bit memory chips operating at 1ghz.
Or you could have 16x 16bit chips operating at 500Mhz for the exact same result.

It's extremely flexible because memory transaction can be made extremely parallel. - Obviously on the other-side of the memory equation you need a memory controller that can handle all of that... And higher clocked Ram or wider memory buses tend to require a more complex memory controller to manage it all.

In short you can have DDR2 Ram be faster than GDDR6 Ram, it's completely dependent on how many memory chips you want in the end.

You can change the bandwidth on a pc true but not on a closed design, I don't think we're talking about the same thing. The rest will reply to later in another post, on mobile I'm limited.



So it's going to be big and chunky like those PC handhelds?



LegitHyperbole said:

So it's going to be big and chunky like those PC handhelds?

I doubt it.  Nintendo has been pretty form factor for a few decades now.  

One of my skepticisms on the S2 rumors is the 8 inch claims.  Seems rather large and doesn't seem "Nintendo" to me.

But who knows.



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LegitHyperbole said:

So it's going to be big and chunky like those PC handhelds?

The dimensions at least height and width are apparently in the Shipment Manifest leak that Famiboards found on the Switch 2 components. 

The dimensions they found are (*no Joycons attached*) for the plastic front or back piece of the system are apparently:

206mm X 115mm X 14mm (depth)

Now they're not sure if the depth is 100% because the plastic front (back?) piece could connect to another piece and in theory be thicker (there's no way of knowing), but the height and width would be the same. 

The current Switch (OLED) is (no Joycons)

173mm x 102mm x 13.9mm

Based on this the system is substantially larger than the current Switch. The new dock listing they found in the shipment data also seems to measure up to this size, so that's also probably another tell. The "new" dock from the same shipment data has a 200mm width so that seems to lineup with this. 

It's a big system. If the Joycons are the same width as the current Joycons (so that means roughly 66mm for two Joycons), the system would be 272mm wide x 115mm tall, so a little smaller than the Steam Deck but not by much. Considerably thinner though possibly. On the plus side ... that's a lot of space for a big ass battery. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 26 May 2024

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padib said:

You can change the bandwidth on a pc true but not on a closed design, I don't think we're talking about the same thing. The rest will reply to later in another post, on mobile I'm limited.

You can on a closed design.

With the current Nintendo Switch people have managed to push the DRAM speed from 1600Mhz to 1900Mhz-2000Mhz.
That takes the bandwidth from 25.6GB/s to 32GB/s.

The same fundamental electrical design concepts that apply to PC, apply to Consoles.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Pemalite said:
padib said:

You can change the bandwidth on a pc true but not on a closed design, I don't think we're talking about the same thing. The rest will reply to later in another post, on mobile I'm limited.

You can on a closed design.

With the current Nintendo Switch people have managed to push the DRAM speed from 1600Mhz to 1900Mhz-2000Mhz.
That takes the bandwidth from 25.6GB/s to 32GB/s.

The same fundamental electrical design concepts that apply to PC, apply to Consoles.

Again you're changing the topic alot, you were talking about changing mem cards, now you're talking about changing the settings on the bios level. Two different things. But fair if you can change the RAM bandwidth on the Switch, I won't argue. My point was that on a closed design the physical memory is fixed.



padib said:
Pemalite said:

You can on a closed design.

With the current Nintendo Switch people have managed to push the DRAM speed from 1600Mhz to 1900Mhz-2000Mhz.
That takes the bandwidth from 25.6GB/s to 32GB/s.

The same fundamental electrical design concepts that apply to PC, apply to Consoles.

Again you're changing the topic alot, you were talking about changing mem cards, now you're talking about changing the settings on the bios level. Two different things. But fair if you can change the RAM bandwidth on the Switch, I won't argue. My point was that on a closed design the physical memory is fixed.

What are you on about? You said you cannot "change the bandwidth in a closed design". - And that is a blatant lie.

The Switch also has different Ram states... Where the Ram will operate at either 1333mhz or 1600mhz. Which removes any user-level interference, overclocking or modification.

In a closed design physical memory is not always fixed.

On the Nintendo 64 you could add more Ram via the expansion pack as another example.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Soundwave said:
LegitHyperbole said:

So it's going to be big and chunky like those PC handhelds?

The dimensions at least height and width are apparently in the Shipment Manifest leak that Famiboards found on the Switch 2 components. 

The dimensions they found are (*no Joycons attached*) for the plastic front or back piece of the system are apparently:

206mm X 115mm X 14mm (depth)

Now they're not sure if the depth is 100% because the plastic front (back?) piece could connect to another piece and in theory be thicker (there's no way of knowing), but the height and width would be the same. 

The current Switch (OLED) is (no Joycons)

173mm x 102mm x 13.9mm

Based on this the system is substantially larger than the current Switch. The new dock listing they found in the shipment data also seems to measure up to this size, so that's also probably another tell. The "new" dock from the same shipment data has a 200mm width so that seems to lineup with this. 

It's a big system. If the Joycons are the same width as the current Joycons (so that means roughly 66mm for two Joycons), the system would be 272mm wide x 115mm tall, so a little smaller than the Steam Deck but not by much. Considerably thinner though possibly. On the plus side ... that's a lot of space for a big ass battery. 

Oof. That's rough, the OG switch was pushing it for portability. I hope they don't think people use PC portables for anything other than lazily round the house. Perhaps they have data that shows people don't actually use the switch on the go too 🤔 



LegitHyperbole said:
Soundwave said:

The dimensions at least height and width are apparently in the Shipment Manifest leak that Famiboards found on the Switch 2 components. 

The dimensions they found are (*no Joycons attached*) for the plastic front or back piece of the system are apparently:

206mm X 115mm X 14mm (depth)

Now they're not sure if the depth is 100% because the plastic front (back?) piece could connect to another piece and in theory be thicker (there's no way of knowing), but the height and width would be the same. 

The current Switch (OLED) is (no Joycons)

173mm x 102mm x 13.9mm

Based on this the system is substantially larger than the current Switch. The new dock listing they found in the shipment data also seems to measure up to this size, so that's also probably another tell. The "new" dock from the same shipment data has a 200mm width so that seems to lineup with this. 

It's a big system. If the Joycons are the same width as the current Joycons (so that means roughly 66mm for two Joycons), the system would be 272mm wide x 115mm tall, so a little smaller than the Steam Deck but not by much. Considerably thinner though possibly. On the plus side ... that's a lot of space for a big ass battery. 

Oof. That's rough, the OG switch was pushing it for portability. I hope they don't think people use PC portables for anything other than lazily round the house. Perhaps they have data that shows people don't actually use the switch on the go too 🤔 

I think their internal data is showing that people prefer larger screens + don't mind larger portables. I mean people take their huge phones and even tablets everywhere. Looks like they went with a significantly larger system. I think their internal data probably also showed people weren't shoving their Switch into their pant pockets (like a DS or 3DS) anyway. It's too big as is, so I think they figured they can go even larger if you're putting it in a bag, case, or larger jacket pocket or something. 

Another plus though beyond the chipset, screen, and battery stuff is the Joycons are going to be larger too which should help comfort in using them especially when held horizontally.