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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The state of the Industry and Capitalism

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Nintendo is constrained by Japan's rigid labor laws and also has less than 3,000 employees in the parent company.

Layoffs and office closures almost always happen in their subsidiaries like NoA and NoE (yes, even in the Iwata days, despite the near-mythical status of his anti-layoff posture), and Sega, Square Enix, etc. follow the same pattern if you pay attention to the news.

That's why large non-North American companies tend to be trash to their consumers first and foremost instead of to both consumers and employees.



 

 

 

 

 

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Regulation, unionization and post capitalism



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

Mobile gaming is fueling the push to make games that are smaller, less expensive, and cheaper to make. You won't need a AAA budget for something that goes on an IPhone. Meh. Gaming has probably peaked in terms of sales given the vast amounts of free mobile games that are taking a larger chunk out of the world's time.



RolStoppable said:
Azzanation said:

Let me be the first to reply. 

Valve make games.

Both Valve and Nintendo dont have parant companies to fill their pockets. Decisions are all internal. Watch it change if one gets brought out.

Capitalism is the problem because the gaming industry has become more corporate now than it was in the 80s and 90s. 

Also, wtf, propaganda? You alright?

I work in a head office with corporate suits, i see and hear the exact same things happen outside of gaming. People just believe gaming is a passion industry where companies make games and dont care about money when its the exact opposite. Its become a moneypit for corpos.

People are starting to see the reality of the industry. Its not a fairyland filled with volunteer workers sacrificing themselves to make games for us. Its filled with paid workers and suits who all act the same way with any other industry.

If you are going to reply to me, address my points instead of repeating the wrong things you said in your original post.

You didn't have a point, that's the problem. You just said it isn't Capitalism its MS. Thats not a point.

If its MS, why did Sony close down London and lay off 900+ employees earlier this year, while being the market leader and laying off staff from a very successful studio in Insomniac? Was that a GamePass issue? Was it a consolidation issue? Was it a MS issue? Or are Sony treated differently?



LurkerJ said:

It reads like propaganda because you pre-emptively excluded Nintendo for all the wrongs reasons, this is probably because you know your inaccurate observations are only passable if you get to pick and choose the players you can apply your said observations to. 

While I have not been active online recently, last I checked, Nintendo is a publicly owned company with vicious shareholders like freaking Mohammad Bin Salman.

I know many are trying really hard to set the narrative that this is an industry wide problem when in reality, the biggest company in the world can play by a different set of rules if they want to, just like Nintendo does, but the truth is; this is MS just being MS. 

Now, do I believe that things are being blown out of proportion? Partly, yes, but the lack of "we are listening" tweets and the follow-up podcast by Phil Spencer makes me strongly suspect there is a lot more to come. He may have realised, organically, that he needs to talk less, but the timing is too convenient. Let's watch this space.

Thats where you are wrong. This is an Industry wide problem. Sony also lay off staff and shut down studios, they did so earlier this year. PS and Xbox report to Sony and MS. Nintendo are different because they are publicly owned. They all have shareholders, but Nintendo have more control on the outcome and aren't told how to manage their company by a parent company like PS and Xbox. Thats why Nintendo and Valve continue to dominate with little issue because of that point. 

If Nintendo was under let's say EA, then I would put them in the same situation because you can bet your ass that the parent company will tell Nintendo to shut down studios or lay off staff for that bottom line dollar. Thats the industry we are in, it is controlled by major corporations, and they want a return-on-investment a lot more.  



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Azzanation said:
RolStoppable said:

If you are going to reply to me, address my points instead of repeating the wrong things you said in your original post.

You didn't have a point, that's the problem. You just said it isn't Capitalism its MS. Thats not a point.

If its MS, why did Sony close down London and lay off 900+ employees earlier this year, while being the market leader and laying off staff from a very successful studio in Insomniac? Was that a GamePass issue? Was it a consolidation issue? Was it a MS issue? Or are Sony treated differently?

Sony sucks as well. There was a data leak at Insomniac Games that showed how much revenue first party games have brought in and how much they did cost to make and market. Even profitable studios were hit by layoffs.

I'll repeat my point because you didn't grasp it: Nintendo recognizes game developers as an asset that is necessary to keep for future profitability. Capitalism isn't only about the next fiscal year, so your main assertion that both capitalism and the nature of this industry are to blame is wrong.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

RolStoppable said:
Azzanation said:

You didn't have a point, that's the problem. You just said it isn't Capitalism its MS. Thats not a point.

If its MS, why did Sony close down London and lay off 900+ employees earlier this year, while being the market leader and laying off staff from a very successful studio in Insomniac? Was that a GamePass issue? Was it a consolidation issue? Was it a MS issue? Or are Sony treated differently?

Sony sucks as well. There was a data leak at Insomniac Games that showed how much revenue first party games have brought in and how much they did cost to make and market. Even profitable studios were hit by layoffs.

I'll repeat my point because you didn't grasp it: Nintendo recognizes game developers as an asset that is necessary to keep for future profitability. Capitalism isn't only about the next fiscal year, so your main assertion that both capitalism and the nature of this industry are to blame is wrong.

Nintendo are able to manage their business differently because they are not under the same pressure of removing the bottom lines like Xbox and PS. Nintendo are in a very good business position with hardware and software. They make money on consoles sold and they sell the most amount of software. They are not under the same pressure as Xbox which are not only bleeding money from console sales, but they are also bleeding from internal studios not making enough money. If Nintendo owned as much as MS with studios, they will also internally review them and close those that aren't making it. That is a guarantee.   



haxxiy said:

Nintendo is constrained by Japan's rigid labor laws and also has less than 3,000 employees in the parent company.

Layoffs and office closures almost always happen in their subsidiaries like NoA and NoE (yes, even in the Iwata days, despite the near-mythical status of his anti-layoff posture), and Sega, Square Enix, etc. follow the same pattern if you pay attention to the news.

That's why large non-North American companies tend to be trash to their consumers first and foremost instead of to both consumers and employees.

According to the latest FY financial update Nintendo has 7724 employees at the end of FY2024. That's 407 more than the previous year. Nintendo's employee count has been rising pretty much constantly since the 80's.



Azzanation said:
LurkerJ said:

It reads like propaganda because you pre-emptively excluded Nintendo for all the wrongs reasons, this is probably because you know your inaccurate observations are only passable if you get to pick and choose the players you can apply your said observations to. 

While I have not been active online recently, last I checked, Nintendo is a publicly owned company with vicious shareholders like freaking Mohammad Bin Salman.

I know many are trying really hard to set the narrative that this is an industry wide problem when in reality, the biggest company in the world can play by a different set of rules if they want to, just like Nintendo does, but the truth is; this is MS just being MS. 

Now, do I believe that things are being blown out of proportion? Partly, yes, but the lack of "we are listening" tweets and the follow-up podcast by Phil Spencer makes me strongly suspect there is a lot more to come. He may have realised, organically, that he needs to talk less, but the timing is too convenient. Let's watch this space.

Thats where you are wrong. This is an Industry wide problem. Sony also lay off staff and shut down studios, they did so earlier this year. PS and Xbox report to Sony and MS. Nintendo are different because they are publicly owned. They all have shareholders, but Nintendo have more control on the outcome and aren't told how to manage their company by a parent company like PS and Xbox. Thats why Nintendo and Valve continue to dominate with little issue because of that point. 

If Nintendo was under let's say EA, then I would put them in the same situation because you can bet your ass that the parent company will tell Nintendo to shut down studios or lay off staff for that bottom line dollar. Thats the industry we are in, it is controlled by major corporations, and they want a return-on-investment a lot more.  

It's hard to follow your logic, or lack of. 

You say mergers has nothing to do with anything, despite the fact that massive ABK layoffs happened following the merger due to duplicate staff filling similar position. You say mergers has nothing to do with anything, then you go on to say that because ABK and Bethesda are now special cases because they need to report to MS, while Nintendo doesn't have this issue because they're not reporting to a mega-corporation the size of MS? Your words against your words.

You ask us, simply, not to assume Hi-Fi rush was a success because..... you, simply, believe it was a failure, and ask us not to assume otherwise even in the presence of a direct quote from an MS exec praising Hi-Fi rush success? Your words against Aaron's words. 

We've been told repeatedly that being under a mega-corp like MS would lift the financial pressure off and allow for more creative freedom, and how Gamepass success metrics will change the game for titles like HiFi, repeatedly being presented with Phil's gospel: 

Your words against Phil's. 

This is why it all sounds like propaganda and damage control, I never said the things you're asking me to defend, and tbh, no one outside of the xbox fanbase sphere is shocked or surprised or asking for explanations, this is MS's DNA and they're doing what they alway do.

Finally, I am not betting shit, bet your own ass and chill. 



Azzanation said:
RolStoppable said:

Sony sucks as well. There was a data leak at Insomniac Games that showed how much revenue first party games have brought in and how much they did cost to make and market. Even profitable studios were hit by layoffs.

I'll repeat my point because you didn't grasp it: Nintendo recognizes game developers as an asset that is necessary to keep for future profitability. Capitalism isn't only about the next fiscal year, so your main assertion that both capitalism and the nature of this industry are to blame is wrong.

Nintendo are able to manage their business differently because they are not under the same pressure of removing the bottom lines like Xbox and PS. Nintendo are in a very good business position with hardware and software. They make money on consoles sold and they sell the most amount of software. They are not under the same pressure as Xbox which are not only bleeding money from console sales, but they are also bleeding from internal studios not making enough money. If Nintendo owned as much as MS with studios, they will also internally review them and close those that aren't making it. That is a guarantee.   

PS is becoming too important to SNY in terms of profits. SNY needs to find those future profits elsewhere through better existing non PS products whether it be higher quality or lower pricing. That or they need to expand into new markets where they can find worthy profits, otherwise PS is going to end up in the same boat as XB eventually. Even with SNY being a Japanese company, PS is going to need more breathing room in the future.

As for Nin, there's probably a good reason why Nin doesn't have too many studios. It's called good responsible management. Going out and spending close to a hundred billion dollars, only to then start firing brand new employees, as well as existing employees who are succeeding, is poor management. Nin isn't perfect but is a much better run business overall.

Capitalism itself isn't the problem, it's how it's implemented that matters. Same goes for most other things. In the past, we would never have let a company like MS get as big as it has because it always leads to poor management and collapse or extremely aggressive capitalism which causes way too many problems. That's why massive corporations are supposed to get broken up, with the expectation that the newly formed companies will continue to grow and innovate through meaningful competition. 

Remember what Phil's email said? That Nin didn't realize it yet, but their future was on XB hardware? Who's putting their games on Nin and PS hardware now? Are we to thank XB or MS for that?