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Forums - Sales Discussion - FF7 Rebirth has reportedly sold half what Remake did in the same timeframe

IcaroRibeiro said:

I believe the wrong way of thinking about current FF situation presumes FF flopping is a Sony/Playstation problem rather than a Square problem. Playstation userbade has been stable and JRPGs still selling the best there. I'll go as far and say FF XVI was saved by Sony timed exclusivity to cover development costs

The debate about FF going multiplat is strange because it presumes FF fandom don't buy Playstation hardware to play FF. The absolute majority of people who wants to play FF will buy a Playstation, it has been the case for the last 20 years

I'm not saying Square is wrong for doing multiplat releases. Being multiplat is a good thing to build a new fandom, since FF fandom is aging

But Every JRPG that experience fandom growth in popularity starts selling better first at Playstation and just then get multiplatform treatment. If the franchise is not growing on PS5 why would it suddenly start growing elsewhere?

Maybe because the PS5 doesn't serve every demographic of players? Some people would prefer the game on a platform with more capable settings, mods and tweakability (PC). Some people would prefer the ability to take the game on the go (Switch). Some people aren't multiplatform owners and would suddenly be interested if it comes to the platform of their choice.

It's not the late 90s and early 2000s anymore. Sony doesn't have a stranglehold on the JRPG market like it used to, and Final Fantasy isn't in a tier of its own that forces player buying habits on its own like it used to.



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burninmylight said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

I believe the wrong way of thinking about current FF situation presumes FF flopping is a Sony/Playstation problem rather than a Square problem. Playstation userbade has been stable and JRPGs still selling the best there. I'll go as far and say FF XVI was saved by Sony timed exclusivity to cover development costs

The debate about FF going multiplat is strange because it presumes FF fandom don't buy Playstation hardware to play FF. The absolute majority of people who wants to play FF will buy a Playstation, it has been the case for the last 20 years

I'm not saying Square is wrong for doing multiplat releases. Being multiplat is a good thing to build a new fandom, since FF fandom is aging

But Every JRPG that experience fandom growth in popularity starts selling better first at Playstation and just then get multiplatform treatment. If the franchise is not growing on PS5 why would it suddenly start growing elsewhere?

Maybe because the PS5 doesn't serve every demographic of players? Some people would prefer the game on a platform with more capable settings, mods and tweakability (PC). Some people would prefer the ability to take the game on the go (Switch). Some people aren't multiplatform owners and would suddenly be interested if it comes to the platform of their choice.

It's not the late 90s and early 2000s anymore. Sony doesn't have a stranglehold on the JRPG market like it used to, and Final Fantasy isn't in a tier of its own that forces player buying habits on its own like it used to.

FF still at its core a story driven single-player gamer. It does not benefit from PC or Switch hardware advantages and the fandom has been always in Playstation. If Final Fantasy was appealing to PC gamers, PC gamers would have been buying Final Fantasy. It's clearly not the case looking at the weak sales of VII Remake 

I already addressed at least twice in this thread Square needs to make the gameplay more appealing to PC demographic if they want to sell substantial amounts on PC. XVI will receive another lukewarm response on PC platforms because it's currently designed with older FF fanbase in mind (read Playstation players)

The way it goes FF will keep flopping and worse: This time without Sony pockets to cover development costs 



IcaroRibeiro said:
curl-6 said:

I really don't think a potential Rebirth port would sell poorly on Switch 2.
We've seen third party ports like Hogwarts Legacy or Witcher 3 sell well enough on the current Switch, and the Switch audience is big on JRPGs; Dragon Quest 11 sold more in its first week on Switch in Japan than Rebirth did on PS5, and that's despite the Switch version being two years late.

I guess any number can be considered either good or bad depending on whether you want the outlook to be positive or not 

The Witcher probably sold what, 5% of its total sales on Switch? What about Hogwats Legacy? 8%?

Both results can be considered acceptable because the games in question are massive success to begin with, so any additional copy is pure profit at this point

The case of Final Fantasy is much more severe. It's a franchise that is having problem to sell even as low as 4 million copies. If anything Switch can bring is a pitiful 300-400k extra copies (which is precisely how much I think it will bring) the IP will still having problems surviving. Maybe enough to break even port costs, hardly enough to help the IP make profits 

Anecdotal for sure, but the UK charts show Hogwarts Legacy being sold most on Switch nowadays for quite some time (Nintendo Life provides the split in their weekly reporting). The other versions had a head start, so not sure how the split is over total sales. But Warner Bross certainly made the right choice by green-lighting the port to Switch.



IcaroRibeiro said:
burninmylight said:

Maybe because the PS5 doesn't serve every demographic of players? Some people would prefer the game on a platform with more capable settings, mods and tweakability (PC). Some people would prefer the ability to take the game on the go (Switch). Some people aren't multiplatform owners and would suddenly be interested if it comes to the platform of their choice.

It's not the late 90s and early 2000s anymore. Sony doesn't have a stranglehold on the JRPG market like it used to, and Final Fantasy isn't in a tier of its own that forces player buying habits on its own like it used to.

FF still at its core a story driven single-player gamer. It does not benefit from PC or Switch hardware advantages and the fandom has been always in Playstation. If Final Fantasy was appealing to PC gamers, PC gamers would have been buying Final Fantasy. It's clearly not the case looking at the weak sales of VII Remake 

I already addressed at least twice in this thread Square needs to make the gameplay more appealing to PC demographic if they want to sell substantial amounts on PC. XVI will receive another lukewarm response on PC platforms because it's currently designed with older FF fanbase in mind (read Playstation players)

The way it goes FF will keep flopping and worse: This time without Sony pockets to cover development costs 

Sony is no longer the plularity of the core gaming demographic, even though the Playstation still sells well and outsells the XBox easily, I think they are the minority of that market.

The PC + Switch + XBox combined is a larger market than the Playstation today (sorry Sony). Beyond that there are also other notable changes, the PS1 + PS2 dominated in Japan as the defacto market leader for game sales there, today Playstation is a shadow of what they used to be, lets face it Nintendo retook Japan. 

The other thing is the hardware reality back then was just different. PC ports of console games was a niche market, there was no Steam store, PC gaming centered largely around Western FPS shooters and strategy games and "console style" gaming was kind of a PC novelty. That's not so today at all. Even like controllers on PC, there was no real agreed upon PC controller standard, today you can just literally use XBox and Playstation and even Switch controllers on your PC. 

Even more to the point in the late 90s/mid 2000s, the Game Boy and DS sure as heck could not run any kind of version of Final Fantasy VII or Final Fantasy X or anything. Today, the Switch 1/2 can plausibly run a lot/all of Square's higher end games. Sure you may have to compromise a couple of things, but it's nothing like trying to figure out how FFX could run on a DS or FF7 on a GBA. 

To say 1997-2006 for example wasn't hugely different from today is just not true at all. 

Now ... is Square-Enix just gonna show up on Switch 2/PC/XBox and start selling gangbusters over night? Probably not. It's going to probably take a little while to build up audiences there because Square has been negligent in fostering their IP on those platforms. But in the long term, I do believe yes absolutely going multiplatform is going to lead to higher sales. It can't get much worse than where they are at now, how in the world does a FF7 Remake (well Rebirth) with lots of GOTY rave reviews, a decent marketing budget, etc. etc. not even sell as well as like a Pikmin game (lol). 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 21 May 2024

IcaroRibeiro said:
burninmylight said:

Maybe because the PS5 doesn't serve every demographic of players? Some people would prefer the game on a platform with more capable settings, mods and tweakability (PC). Some people would prefer the ability to take the game on the go (Switch). Some people aren't multiplatform owners and would suddenly be interested if it comes to the platform of their choice.

It's not the late 90s and early 2000s anymore. Sony doesn't have a stranglehold on the JRPG market like it used to, and Final Fantasy isn't in a tier of its own that forces player buying habits on its own like it used to.

FF still at its core a story driven single-player gamer. It does not benefit from PC or Switch hardware advantages and the fandom has been always in Playstation. If Final Fantasy was appealing to PC gamers, PC gamers would have been buying Final Fantasy. It's clearly not the case looking at the weak sales of VII Remake 

I already addressed at least twice in this thread Square needs to make the gameplay more appealing to PC demographic if they want to sell substantial amounts on PC. XVI will receive another lukewarm response on PC platforms because it's currently designed with older FF fanbase in mind (read Playstation players)

The way it goes FF will keep flopping and worse: This time without Sony pockets to cover development costs 

FF7 remake launched late, was $70 and was a poor port (stuttering).  Not sure I would read to much into sales.  Sony has had some good success on PC.  Not sure why Square can't.  

And perhaps I am outlier.  But I would pick up 16 and rebirth on steam...  I just need a release.  



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Soundwave said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

FF still at its core a story driven single-player gamer. It does not benefit from PC or Switch hardware advantages and the fandom has been always in Playstation. If Final Fantasy was appealing to PC gamers, PC gamers would have been buying Final Fantasy. It's clearly not the case looking at the weak sales of VII Remake 

I already addressed at least twice in this thread Square needs to make the gameplay more appealing to PC demographic if they want to sell substantial amounts on PC. XVI will receive another lukewarm response on PC platforms because it's currently designed with older FF fanbase in mind (read Playstation players)

The way it goes FF will keep flopping and worse: This time without Sony pockets to cover development costs 

Sony is no longer the plularity of the core gaming demographic, even though the Playstation still sells well and outsells the XBox easily, I think they are the minority of that market.

The PC + Switch + XBox combined is a larger market than the Playstation today (sorry Sony). Beyond that there are also other notable changes, the PS1 + PS2 dominated in Japan as the defacto market leader for game sales there, today Playstation is a shadow of what they used to be, lets face it Nintendo retook Japan. 

The other thing is the hardware reality back then was just different. PC ports of console games was a niche market, there was no Steam store, PC gaming centered largely around Western FPS shooters and strategy games and "console style" gaming was kind of a PC novelty. That's not so today at all. Even like controllers on PC, there was no real agreed upon PC controller standard, today you can just literally use XBox and Playstation and even Switch controllers on your PC. 

Even more to the point in the late 90s/mid 2000s, the Game Boy and DS sure as heck could not run any kind of version of Final Fantasy VII or Final Fantasy X or anything. Today, the Switch 1/2 can plausibly run a lot/all of Square's higher end games. Sure you may have to compromise a couple of things, but it's nothing like trying to figure out how FFX could run on a DS or FF7 on a GBA. 

To say 1997-2006 for example wasn't hugely different from today is just not true at all. 

Now ... is Square-Enix just gonna show up on Switch 2/PC/XBox and start selling gangbusters over night? Probably not. It's going to probably take a little while to build up audiences there because Square has been negligent in fostering their IP on those platforms. But in the long term, I do believe yes absolutely going multiplatform is going to lead to higher sales. It can't get much worse than where they are at now, how in the world does a FF7 Remake (well Rebirth) with lots of GOTY rave reviews, a decent marketing budget, etc. etc. not even sell as well as like a Pikmin game (lol). 

I'm confused where the switch fits into this.  I would say pc,Xbox and Playstation are the same market and switch just does it's own thing with most big games not even showing up on the system. 



zeldaring said:
Soundwave said:

Sony is no longer the plularity of the core gaming demographic, even though the Playstation still sells well and outsells the XBox easily, I think they are the minority of that market.

The PC + Switch + XBox combined is a larger market than the Playstation today (sorry Sony). Beyond that there are also other notable changes, the PS1 + PS2 dominated in Japan as the defacto market leader for game sales there, today Playstation is a shadow of what they used to be, lets face it Nintendo retook Japan. 

The other thing is the hardware reality back then was just different. PC ports of console games was a niche market, there was no Steam store, PC gaming centered largely around Western FPS shooters and strategy games and "console style" gaming was kind of a PC novelty. That's not so today at all. Even like controllers on PC, there was no real agreed upon PC controller standard, today you can just literally use XBox and Playstation and even Switch controllers on your PC. 

Even more to the point in the late 90s/mid 2000s, the Game Boy and DS sure as heck could not run any kind of version of Final Fantasy VII or Final Fantasy X or anything. Today, the Switch 1/2 can plausibly run a lot/all of Square's higher end games. Sure you may have to compromise a couple of things, but it's nothing like trying to figure out how FFX could run on a DS or FF7 on a GBA. 

To say 1997-2006 for example wasn't hugely different from today is just not true at all. 

Now ... is Square-Enix just gonna show up on Switch 2/PC/XBox and start selling gangbusters over night? Probably not. It's going to probably take a little while to build up audiences there because Square has been negligent in fostering their IP on those platforms. But in the long term, I do believe yes absolutely going multiplatform is going to lead to higher sales. It can't get much worse than where they are at now, how in the world does a FF7 Remake (well Rebirth) with lots of GOTY rave reviews, a decent marketing budget, etc. etc. not even sell as well as like a Pikmin game (lol). 

I'm confused where the switch fits into this.  I would say pc,Xbox and Playstation are the same market and switch just does it's own thing with most big games not even showing up on the system. 

It fits in as the " ___ and a Switch" part of your gaming setup because as you said, it mostly does it's own thing. "I game on ___ for big tent games and a Switch for Nintendo games, indies and stuff I want to play while I'm out".

Also, still waiting on those Monster Hunter comparison shots.



zeldaring said:
Soundwave said:

Sony is no longer the plularity of the core gaming demographic, even though the Playstation still sells well and outsells the XBox easily, I think they are the minority of that market.

The PC + Switch + XBox combined is a larger market than the Playstation today (sorry Sony). Beyond that there are also other notable changes, the PS1 + PS2 dominated in Japan as the defacto market leader for game sales there, today Playstation is a shadow of what they used to be, lets face it Nintendo retook Japan. 

The other thing is the hardware reality back then was just different. PC ports of console games was a niche market, there was no Steam store, PC gaming centered largely around Western FPS shooters and strategy games and "console style" gaming was kind of a PC novelty. That's not so today at all. Even like controllers on PC, there was no real agreed upon PC controller standard, today you can just literally use XBox and Playstation and even Switch controllers on your PC. 

Even more to the point in the late 90s/mid 2000s, the Game Boy and DS sure as heck could not run any kind of version of Final Fantasy VII or Final Fantasy X or anything. Today, the Switch 1/2 can plausibly run a lot/all of Square's higher end games. Sure you may have to compromise a couple of things, but it's nothing like trying to figure out how FFX could run on a DS or FF7 on a GBA. 

To say 1997-2006 for example wasn't hugely different from today is just not true at all. 

Now ... is Square-Enix just gonna show up on Switch 2/PC/XBox and start selling gangbusters over night? Probably not. It's going to probably take a little while to build up audiences there because Square has been negligent in fostering their IP on those platforms. But in the long term, I do believe yes absolutely going multiplatform is going to lead to higher sales. It can't get much worse than where they are at now, how in the world does a FF7 Remake (well Rebirth) with lots of GOTY rave reviews, a decent marketing budget, etc. etc. not even sell as well as like a Pikmin game (lol). 

I'm confused where the switch fits into this.  I would say pc,Xbox and Playstation are the same market and switch just does it's own thing with most big games not even showing up on the system. 

It fits in as the no.1 selling platform in the world, no.1 in Japan by 10 country miles, and a lot of those ports on Switch leg out to have higher sales in the end than people think. 

The Switch moves a shit-ton of software and it's not all Nintendo, things like The Witcher 3, Hogwarts Legacy, DQXI, Mortal Kombat 11, FC/FIFA soccer I believe are selling over 1 million copies on the low end and perhaps more than 2 million copies in some cases which is a decent chunk of change. 

Monster Hunter Rise sold nearly 8 million copies on the Switch alone, Minecraft is probably up there, Fortnite is probably north of 3 million also. 

The more 3rd party content it gets the bigger the market for that is going to be. 

XBox is going to be the odd man out IMO, they are going 3rd party. Switch 2 is gonna gain, PC too, Playstation and XBox are kinda both losers because the status quo they held is falling apart. Sony is not going to be able to convince 3rd parties to give them massive exclusives as third parties all pivot to wanting their content on all major platforms to maximize revenue, and even Sony themselves is going to put more and more of their games on PC. Playstation will still sell it's 100 mill units but it's not growing and the days of like Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, exclusives are coming to an end for them, even their 1st party IP are likely going to be pushed on PC closer to day and date because of their business suits. For Playstation and XBox, 10 years ago was better, for Nintendo and PC where the market is going now is better. 

And before anyone posts the 1st/3rd party revenue split on Nintendo systems, understand when Nintendo posts that data they only count the $10 licensing fee from 3rd party games that they take home versus counting the full $60-$70 for their own games (Sony reports it differently), because I know probably some idiot is going to bring this up without understanding the context. It's honestly misleading how Sony/Playstation report software revenue because they count the full sale of every 3rd party game as "Playstation revenue" when really it's not, they only get their licensing fee cut, the rest is revenue for the retailer (if physical) + 3rd party itself. Some Sony shareholders were complaining about this type of reporting actually. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 21 May 2024

Chrkeller said:
IcaroRibeiro said:

FF still at its core a story driven single-player gamer. It does not benefit from PC or Switch hardware advantages and the fandom has been always in Playstation. If Final Fantasy was appealing to PC gamers, PC gamers would have been buying Final Fantasy. It's clearly not the case looking at the weak sales of VII Remake 

I already addressed at least twice in this thread Square needs to make the gameplay more appealing to PC demographic if they want to sell substantial amounts on PC. XVI will receive another lukewarm response on PC platforms because it's currently designed with older FF fanbase in mind (read Playstation players)

The way it goes FF will keep flopping and worse: This time without Sony pockets to cover development costs 

FF7 remake launched late, was $70 and was a poor port (stuttering).  Not sure I would read to much into sales.  Sony has had some good success on PC.  Not sure why Square can't.  

And perhaps I am outlier.  But I would pick up 16 and rebirth on steam...  I just need a release.  

Launch date is by no means a reason for such lower sales. 70 USD is the default price for AAA games and Square games rarely decrease in price except when they go on sale. The truth is the pool of people interested in FF outside Playstation is simply not big. If they were people would have been buying FF VII



IcaroRibeiro said:
Chrkeller said:

FF7 remake launched late, was $70 and was a poor port (stuttering).  Not sure I would read to much into sales.  Sony has had some good success on PC.  Not sure why Square can't.  

And perhaps I am outlier.  But I would pick up 16 and rebirth on steam...  I just need a release.  

Launch date is by no means a reason for such lower sales. 70 USD is the default price for AAA games and Square games rarely go on sale. The truth is the pool of people interested in FF outside Playstation is simply not big. If they were people would have been buying FF VII

I think even as is FF7 Rebirth for example could sell 2 million combined on the Switch 2 + PC + whatever gravy on the sinking XBox (they still probably can get some $$$ from MS for Game Pass down the line). 

Now that may not initially seem like a huge number, but when the game has probably struggling to even get to 3 million on the PS5, going from 2.9 LTD on PS5 to 4.9 million LTD with S2 + PC + XBox included ... that makes a pretty large freaking difference to the bottom line. It's not like this is selling 15 million on the PS5 and thus a piddly 1.5 million extra on other platforms is just gravy.