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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Alternate history: Switch a generation earlier

HoloDust said:
curl-6 said:

It's still all motion controls; moving the controller itself rather than pressing a stick or button. Whether you're measuring the motion with a gyroscope or an accelerometer, motion is motion.

Regarding Sixaxis, more Wii owners probably used gyro aiming than PS3 owners considering Wii Sports Resort sold over 33 million copies.

As I said, technically true, but as I also said, not what people are really thinking of when someone says motion controls.
And yes, they probably have, but the games you mentioned (that I bolded in your post) go back to Sixaxis as standard controller with gyro, not really Wii.

When people hear motion controls they think of  controlling the game through movement, nobody thinks "oh but that gyro stuff is a totally different thing".

And those games actually go back to Splatoon, that was the game that popularized gyro aiming as it exists on Switch today, not Sixaxis.



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curl-6 said:
HoloDust said:

As I said, technically true, but as I also said, not what people are really thinking of when someone says motion controls.
And yes, they probably have, but the games you mentioned (that I bolded in your post) go back to Sixaxis as standard controller with gyro, not really Wii.

When people hear motion controls they think of  controlling the game through movement, nobody thinks "oh but that gyro stuff is a totally different thing".

And those games actually go back to Splatoon, that was the game that popularized gyro aiming as it exists on Switch today, not Sixaxis.

Because games, even first party Sony exclusives, with gyro aiming didn't exist on PS platforms way before that?

Unfortunately, at this point all that is left for me to say is - sure, mate.



HoloDust said:
curl-6 said:

When people hear motion controls they think of  controlling the game through movement, nobody thinks "oh but that gyro stuff is a totally different thing".

And those games actually go back to Splatoon, that was the game that popularized gyro aiming as it exists on Switch today, not Sixaxis.

Because games, even first party Sony exclusives, with gyro aiming didn't exist on PS platforms way before that?

Unfortunately, at this point all that is left for me to say is - sure, mate.

They existed, but that's not the origin of what we see now on Switch. Gyro aiming on Switch got its kickstart with BOTW and Splatoon 2 in year 1, both of which inherited it from Splatoon 1, which popularized this method with the Nintendo audience.

There was gyro aiming before that, much like there were motion controls before the Wii, but these earlier ventures didn't directly create what we have now, just like not every early hominid is the ancestor of modern humans.



curl-6 said:
HoloDust said:

Because games, even first party Sony exclusives, with gyro aiming didn't exist on PS platforms way before that?

Unfortunately, at this point all that is left for me to say is - sure, mate.

They existed, but that's not the origin of what we see now on Switch. Gyro aiming on Switch got its kickstart with BOTW and Splatoon 2 in year 1, both of which inherited it from Splatoon 1, which popularized this method with the Nintendo audience.

There was gyro aiming before that, much like there were motion controls before the Wii, but these earlier ventures didn't directly create what we have now, just like not every early hominid is the ancestor of modern humans.

Yeah, because gyro aiming on WiiU/Switch is oh so different from other platforms before them, and not completely the same.

Like I said, sure mate.



Conina said:

But the onscreen benchmarks are useless for the fast GPUs which can render the sequence much faster than 60 fps but are v-sync-limited by the 60 Hz displays.

Another advantage of the offscreen benchmarks is that they are benched all in the same resolution (in this case 1280x720, other GFXBenchmarks like T-Rex up to 1080p and Aztec up to 4K), no matter the different native resolutions of the displays.

The issue with off-screen rendering is that operations are performed in a region of memory that is not directed to the display output and is thus managed directly by the program itself and is often used to generate intermediary images like reflection maps, shadow maps and more... And thus can by-pass driver optimizations for specific abstraction and other software layers causing a performance hit on certain architectures which are very driver/kernel/api reliant which nVidia and AMD historically have been.

Just remember, on-screen is real-world.

Soundwave said:

I also doubt 2GB of RAM would have happened, Nintendo originally wanted 1GB of RAM for the *Switch*, lol, go look up the Nintendo NX leaked documents, it was supposed to have a 480p screen + 1GB of RAM total.

People are lucky they didn't go with that crap Eriksson chipset + 1GB RAM.

Were they legitimate leaks with verifiable and legitimate evidence? Or one of the many millions of fake rubbish that circulated the internet that pertained to the console prior to launch?

It's an important distinction to make.

Because remember the Switch was supposed to be AMD powered at one point.

Soundwave said:

I don't think Vita level hardware would look very good on a TV either circa 2012, even Miyamoto said HD is important, by 2011/12 everyone and their grandma (literally) had a HDTV ... to have a "console" that only outputs at like 540p (sub HD resolution) would be another blow against it.

The concept just wasn't ready for prime time in 2011/2012. Mobile chip tech just wasn't there yet. The console side experience especially would've been quite underwhelming.

The other thing is it would have likely cost $250-$300 with mostly the 3DS library ... and take a gander at how the 3DS was selling at $250.

It basically would be a more powerful version of the 3DS with TV output, but I suppose minus the 3D screen quite probably. The Tegra 3 was still a very new chip circa November 2011. 

A large portion of Switch games are sub HD and in-fact run at 360P or 480P. And people are okay with it.

Last edited by Pemalite - on 28 March 2024

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Calling gyro a PS thing is hilarious. No one thinks of "infamous waggle" when remembering Wii except for console warriors. Only console warriors spin Wii's legacy into something bad. Motion controls no matter the tech in them are motion controls. Wii us solely responsible for that legacy. We still see them used the same way in Switch games. People try so hard to act like all Wii games used them no matter what. They were used when it made sense in Wii games just like Switch games. Wii Sports and Nintendo Switch Sports, Mario Kart Wii used them to steer just like Mario Kart 8 deluxe. Wii Play and 1,2 Switch uses them. Switch is literally just contuing Wiis legacy. Friend codes and all.



Phenomajp13 said:

Calling gyro a PS thing is hilarious. No one thinks of "infamous waggle" when remembering Wii except for console warriors. Only console warriors spin Wii's legacy into something bad. Motion controls no matter the tech in them are motion controls. Wii us solely responsible for that legacy. We still see them used the same way in Switch games. People try so hard to act like all Wii games used them no matter what. They were used when it made sense in Wii games just like Switch games. Wii Sports and Nintendo Switch Sports, Mario Kart Wii used them to steer just like Mario Kart 8 deluxe. Wii Play and 1,2 Switch uses them. Switch is literally just contuing Wiis legacy. Friend codes and all.

I still have my Wii hooked up. PS3 not so much.

Calling gyro aiming a Wii thing is beyond hilarious.



HoloDust said:
Phenomajp13 said:

Calling gyro a PS thing is hilarious. No one thinks of "infamous waggle" when remembering Wii except for console warriors. Only console warriors spin Wii's legacy into something bad. Motion controls no matter the tech in them are motion controls. Wii us solely responsible for that legacy. We still see them used the same way in Switch games. People try so hard to act like all Wii games used them no matter what. They were used when it made sense in Wii games just like Switch games. Wii Sports and Nintendo Switch Sports, Mario Kart Wii used them to steer just like Mario Kart 8 deluxe. Wii Play and 1,2 Switch uses them. Switch is literally just contuing Wiis legacy. Friend codes and all.

I still have my Wii hooked up. PS3 not so much.

Calling gyro aiming a Wii thing is beyond hilarious.

Which console has the highest selling gyro games? So what would be so hard to believe that it would be referred to as the gyro console? You said Wii didn't get gyro until 2009 with a game that sold 33 million lol. Wii motion plus was also eventually bundled into the controllers. Yet you somehow want to give that title to PS3, who had no success in motion based games at all lol. You say the list supporting motion plus was short, what games even supported PS sixasis? So like I said, Wii was the gyro console. WiiU inherited this from Wii and now Switch. It's really not this hard. 



RolStoppable said:

It's certain that the perception would be different, but that's because there are plenty of people who don't understand business properly. I mean, there are even people who believe that the PS3 was successful, because the only thing they look at is unit sales. Also, in our reality it has been repeatedly brought up that Switch, despite all its success, will fall far short of the combined DS+Wii unit sales. But this line of argument doesn't work against Switch when the sales of software units is in the same ballpark as DS+Wii combined and Nintendo's profits are also in the same league. The logical conclusion here is that much of the decline in hardware units was caused by the elimination of the need to buy two separate systems.

Regarding third party support, it's probable that there would have been more multiplatform games, but at the same time doubtful that that would have moved the needle much for either system, because the number of big third party sellers that the actual 3DS and Vita got was pretty small.

And the major other point regarding perception of success would be the elimination of Sony from the handheld market. So in the hypothetical scenario we would be looking at something like half as many Switch units sold as DS+Wii combined, but with a bright future outlook for third party support. Not only because of the lack of a Sony handheld, but also because third parties as a whole were realizing that smartphone gaming doesn't work as replacement for handheld gaming.

According to VGChartz, software:
Switch: 1.2b
DS: 948m
Wii: 921.85m
DS+Wii:1.87b

@underlined.

Tie ratio:
Switch: 8.67
DS: 6.16
Wii: 9.07
Wii+DS: 1.87b/(101.63m + 154.02m): 7.31

Last edited by padib - on 28 March 2024

Phenomajp13 said:

Calling gyro a PS thing is hilarious. No one thinks of "infamous waggle" when remembering Wii except for console warriors. Only console warriors spin Wii's legacy into something bad. Motion controls no matter the tech in them are motion controls. Wii us solely responsible for that legacy. We still see them used the same way in Switch games. People try so hard to act like all Wii games used them no matter what. They were used when it made sense in Wii games just like Switch games. Wii Sports and Nintendo Switch Sports, Mario Kart Wii used them to steer just like Mario Kart 8 deluxe. Wii Play and 1,2 Switch uses them. Switch is literally just contuing Wiis legacy. Friend codes and all.

Wii had some fantastic motion controls.

The bigger problem to me is that the majority of Wii games required a Wii Remote, or Wii Remote and Nunchuck. Switch fixed this by having Pro Controller support in almost every game. 

It makes me wonder if in this alternate history Nintendo would still make a Classic Controller a limited option like real life. I'm thinking not since the games would have to be compatible in handheld mode, so forced motion controls wouldn't be a thing. 



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 151 million (was 73, then 96, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million)

PS5: 115 million (was 105 million) Xbox Series S/X: 57 million (was 60 million, then 67 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

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