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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Alternate history: Switch a generation earlier

RolStoppable on 26 March 2024
Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

(...)

Motion controls are alive and well and here to stay.

Looking at the top 10 selling games for both systems and like more than half for the Wii are motion games, whereas for the Switch it's not even close to that. Mario Party was a big selling IP established long before motion controls were implemented into the IP. 

(lists)

Lets be honest too, Ring Fit was likely bolstered heavily by the pandemic shut downs that closed gyms everywhere around the world and drove the home fitness category through the roof, look no further than Peloton that had sky high sales during the pandemic and has crashed since lock downs ended. 

Switch Sports has sold a respectable amount but it's currently only the 18th best seller on the Switch and probably soon to be overtaken by Mario Wonder. Compared to what Wii Sports/Resort were on the Wii (no.1 and no.3 top sellers), it's well below that. 

I am having a hard time finding anything in your post that contradicts curl's point. That's because you've failed.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV will outsell Super Smash Bros. Brawl. I was wrong.

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curl-6 on 27 March 2024
IcaroRibeiro said:
curl-6 said:

No Wii game "sold over 100 million on a 90 million userbase", and it sounds like the title you mean here is Wii Sports, which was bundled with almost every system, so not a useful comparison point against games that are largely sold standalone. Sales do not scale linearly with install base anyway; PS2 sold over 150 million yet only a handful of games on it passed 10 million copies sold.

Motion controls are the default control scheme in BOTW, TOTK, Splatoon 2/3, Luigi's Mansion 3, etc and they are how millions prefer to play.

If the audience for them was gone, games like Super Mario Party, Ring Fit, and Switch Sports would have flopped as motion controls are mandatory in those games, yet they sold over 20 million, over 15 million, and over 10 million so far respectively. All three of them actually sold better than Wii Party on Wii, and SMP sold better than all but 7 games on Wii. (And is on track to pass the next two in line, Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus)

Motion controls are alive and well and here to stay.

 I meant over 100 million units combined among all wii-like games, if you want to include Wii Sports then it's close to 200 million. As this was excluding Mario Party, as it's a long franchise that was already successful without motion controls 

The Switch games where motion controls are integral part of gameolay are few. Ring Fit, Switch Sports and 1-2 Switch. They have sold roughly combined 30 million units which is less than a third of how much Wii games sold

I never stated they need to scale linearly, although Switch sells consistently more games than Wii the motion controls focused software sales have decreased substantially despite being available for a much bigger userbase 

You just need to take a look in the top 20 best selling games for each system to be sure how much motion controls have fallen. Even all the best third party games in Wii were all Just Dance, a game that heavily favored motion controls 

Of course there is always be audience for certain kind of games, but they are no longer enough to hard carry a system like they did in Wii days. For most of its players motion controls were just a fad

Fads die out within a year or two; motion controls are still thriving nearly 20 years after the Wii launched. 

They are a key feature in most of the biggest games on the Switch, both first and third party. That they're not always compulsory is irrelevant; many features of modern games are optional, including HD resolutions and 60fps. More choice is a good thing.

The audience for motion controls isn't a monolithic bloc that only cared about Wii Sports; it's a broad array of people, from those that only use their Switch for Ring Fit Adventure, to enthusiasts who use them in Doom Eternal and Sniper Elite, to BOTW and Splatoon players who enjoy those games the way they control by default, and all shades in between. It includes gamers from all walks of life; young and old, casual and enthusiast, Nintendo fan or not.

The audience hasn't disappeared, it has simply evolved over time.



curl-6 on 27 March 2024
Soundwave said:
curl-6 said:

No Wii game "sold over 100 million on a 90 million userbase", and it sounds like the title you mean here is Wii Sports, which was bundled with almost every system, so not a useful comparison point against games that are largely sold standalone. Sales do not scale linearly with install base anyway; PS2 sold over 150 million yet only a handful of games on it passed 10 million copies sold.

Motion controls are the default control scheme in BOTW, TOTK, Splatoon 2/3, Luigi's Mansion 3, etc and they are how millions prefer to play.

If the audience for them was gone, games like Super Mario Party, Ring Fit, and Switch Sports would have flopped as motion controls are mandatory in those games, yet they sold over 20 million, over 15 million, and over 10 million so far respectively. All three of them actually sold better than Wii Party on Wii, and SMP sold better than all but 7 games on Wii. (And is on track to pass the next two in line, Wii Fit and Wii Fit Plus)

Motion controls are alive and well and here to stay.

Looking at the top 10 selling games for both systems and like more than half for the Wii are motion games, whereas for the Switch it's not even close to that. Mario Party was a big selling IP established long before motion controls were implemented into the IP. 

Wii Top Sellers:

1. Wii Sports (82.9 mill)

2. Mario Kart Wii (37.3 mill)

3. Wii Sports Resort (33.4 mill)

4. New Super Mario Bros. Wii (30.32 mill)

5. Wii Play (28 mill)

6. Wii Fit (22.67 mill)

7. Wii Fit Plus (21.13 mill)

8. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (13.3 mill)

9. Super Mario Galaxy (12.8 mill)

10. Just Dance 3 (9.92 mill)

Switch:

1. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe (60+ million)

2. Animal Crossing: NH (44.79 mill)

3. Super Smash Bros. Ultimate (33.67 mill)

4. Zelda: Breath of the Wild (31.67 mill)

5. Super Mario Odyssey (27.65 mill)

6. Pokemon Sword/Shield (26.17 mill)

7. Pokemon Scarlet/Violet (24.36 mill)

8. Super Mario Party (20.3 mill)

9. Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom (20.28 mill)

10. NSMBU Deluxe (17.2 mill)

Lets be honest too, Ring Fit was likely bolstered heavily by the pandemic shut downs that closed gyms everywhere around the world and drove the home fitness category through the roof, look no further than Peloton that had sky high sales during the pandemic and has crashed since lock downs ended. 

Switch Sports has sold a respectable amount but it's currently only the 18th best seller on the Switch and probably soon to be overtaken by Mario Wonder. Compared to what Wii Sports/Resort were on the Wii (no.1 and no.3 top sellers), it's well below that. 

Ring Fit Adventure didn't crash when the pandemic lockdowns ended though, so that theory doesn't hold water.

15 of the 20 best selling Switch games have motion controls; as for Super Mario Party, it has outsold every pre-motion entry in the series by a huge margin.

Motion may not be the brand new novelty it was in 2006, but it is thriving on Switch and has established itself as a permanent feature of the gaming landscape.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 27 March 2024

HoloDust on 27 March 2024
curl-6 said:

The audience for motion controls isn't a monolithic bloc that only cared about Wii Sports; it's a broad array of people, from those that only use their Switch for Ring Fit Adventure, to enthusiasts who use them in Doom Eternal and Sniper Elite, to BOTW and Splatoon players who enjoy those games the way they control by default, and all shades in between.

Personally, I wouldn't file gyro aiming under what we usually think of when we're talking about motion controls, since it's been there for several generations. If anything, I'm perpetually puzzled as to why console industry hasn't implemented it as a standard yet (and to answer my own question, XBOX, who's only console that doesn't have it).



curl-6 on 27 March 2024
HoloDust said:
curl-6 said:

The audience for motion controls isn't a monolithic bloc that only cared about Wii Sports; it's a broad array of people, from those that only use their Switch for Ring Fit Adventure, to enthusiasts who use them in Doom Eternal and Sniper Elite, to BOTW and Splatoon players who enjoy those games the way they control by default, and all shades in between.

Personally, I wouldn't file gyro aiming under what we usually think of when we're talking about motion controls, since it's been there for several generations. If anything, I'm perpetually puzzled as to why console industry hasn't implemented it as a standard yet (and to answer my own question, XBOX, who's only console that doesn't have it).

I agree it really should be a standard, it's so good when properly implemented, you really get that fine grained control that feels intuitive and satisfying. I personally file it under motion controls as I am moving around the whole controller instead of just pushing a button or a stick when I aim in TOTK or Splatoon or Monster Hunter Rise.



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HoloDust on 28 March 2024
curl-6 said:
HoloDust said:

Personally, I wouldn't file gyro aiming under what we usually think of when we're talking about motion controls, since it's been there for several generations. If anything, I'm perpetually puzzled as to why console industry hasn't implemented it as a standard yet (and to answer my own question, XBOX, who's only console that doesn't have it).

I agree it really should be a standard, it's so good when properly implemented, you really get that fine grained control that feels intuitive and satisfying. I personally file it under motion controls as I am moving around the whole controller instead of just pushing a button or a stick when I aim in TOTK or Splatoon or Monster Hunter Rise.

Yeah, I really like when games have it - it's not as good as KB+mouse or direct VR controls, but it is quite an augmentation for standard controllers.

That said, while true, you move controller around, so it technically would be motion controls, though fairly limited, I don't think anyone thinks of gyro when talking about motion controls of Wii era. If anything, VR is where that type of controls are main and/or only controls for most titles.



curl-6 on 28 March 2024
HoloDust said:
curl-6 said:

I agree it really should be a standard, it's so good when properly implemented, you really get that fine grained control that feels intuitive and satisfying. I personally file it under motion controls as I am moving around the whole controller instead of just pushing a button or a stick when I aim in TOTK or Splatoon or Monster Hunter Rise.

Yeah, I really like when games have it - it's not as good as KB+mouse or direct VR controls, but it is quite an augmentation for standard controllers.

That said, while true, you move controller around, so it technically would be motion controls, though fairly limited, I don't think anyone thinks of gyro when talking about motion controls of Wii era. If anything, VR is where that type of controls are main and/or only controls for most titles.

I mean, there was gyro aiming on the Wii; archery in Wii Sports Resort for example uses it, as does aiming the bow or slingshot in Zelda Skyward Sword.

Over time, motion controls have trended towards more subtle movements as opposed to the famous shaking of the controller we saw early in the Wii era; that was evident even throughout the life of the Wii, where by 2010 the "waggle" had largely been replaced by tilting and pointing.

That said, there's still room for more active gesture-based motion controls when the need arises, as seen in Switch Sports, Skyward Sword HD, or No More Heroes III.



HoloDust on 28 March 2024
curl-6 said:
HoloDust said:

Yeah, I really like when games have it - it's not as good as KB+mouse or direct VR controls, but it is quite an augmentation for standard controllers.

That said, while true, you move controller around, so it technically would be motion controls, though fairly limited, I don't think anyone thinks of gyro when talking about motion controls of Wii era. If anything, VR is where that type of controls are main and/or only controls for most titles.

I mean, there was gyro aiming on the Wii; archery in Wii Sports Resort for example uses it, as does aiming the bow or slingshot in Zelda Skyward Sword.

Over time, motion controls have trended towards more subtle movements as opposed to the famous shaking of the controller we saw early in the Wii era; that was evident even throughout the life of the Wii, where by 2010 the "waggle" had largely been replaced by tilting and pointing.

That said, there's still room for more active gesture-based motion controls when the need arises, as seen in Switch Sports, Skyward Sword HD, or No More Heroes III.

Actually, I was thinking of original Wii Remotes capabilities, since that's what Wii launched with, being able to act as pointer, and having infamous "waggle", and, at that point in time, that's what was viewed as "motion controls". Wii got gyro only with Wii Motion Plus in 2009 (and subsequently Wii Remote Plus), and the list of games that actually support it is quite short.

If anything, gyro aiming is more of a PS Sixaxis thing, which launched in 2006.



curl-6 on 28 March 2024
HoloDust said:
curl-6 said:

I mean, there was gyro aiming on the Wii; archery in Wii Sports Resort for example uses it, as does aiming the bow or slingshot in Zelda Skyward Sword.

Over time, motion controls have trended towards more subtle movements as opposed to the famous shaking of the controller we saw early in the Wii era; that was evident even throughout the life of the Wii, where by 2010 the "waggle" had largely been replaced by tilting and pointing.

That said, there's still room for more active gesture-based motion controls when the need arises, as seen in Switch Sports, Skyward Sword HD, or No More Heroes III.

Actually, I was thinking of original Wii Remotes capabilities, since that's what Wii launched with, being able to act as pointer, and having infamous "waggle", and, at that point in time, that's what was viewed as "motion controls". Wii got gyro only with Wii Motion Plus in 2009 (and subsequently Wii Remote Plus), and the list of games that actually support it is quite short.

If anything, gyro aiming is more of a PS Sixaxis thing, which launched in 2006.

It's still all motion controls; moving the controller itself rather than pressing a stick or button. Whether you're measuring the motion with a gyroscope or an accelerometer, motion is motion.

Regarding Sixaxis, more Wii owners probably used gyro aiming than PS3 owners considering Wii Sports Resort sold over 33 million copies.

Last edited by curl-6 - on 28 March 2024

HoloDust on 28 March 2024
curl-6 said:
HoloDust said:

Actually, I was thinking of original Wii Remotes capabilities, since that's what Wii launched with, being able to act as pointer, and having infamous "waggle", and, at that point in time, that's what was viewed as "motion controls". Wii got gyro only with Wii Motion Plus in 2009 (and subsequently Wii Remote Plus), and the list of games that actually support it is quite short.

If anything, gyro aiming is more of a PS Sixaxis thing, which launched in 2006.

It's still all motion controls; moving the controller itself rather than pressing a stick or button. Whether you're measuring the motion with a gyroscope or an accelerometer, motion is motion.

Regarding Sixaxis, more Wii owners probably used gyro aiming than PS3 owners considering Wii Sports Resort sold over 33 million copies.

As I said, technically true, but as I also said, not what people are really thinking of when someone says motion controls.
And yes, they probably have, but the games you mentioned (that I bolded in your post) go back to Sixaxis as standard controller with gyro, not really Wii.