Yeah, first wrong assumption - I'm not a PS fan (nor of any other particular brand) - I still have my Wii hooked up and played, I haven't seen my PS3 in years. Second wrong assumption, it's him who first mentioned waggle, I was just verbatim replying to him. Third wrong assumption, accelerometer tilting is not really the same thing as gyro aiming.

As for Sony, more or less, I said it already - they push the idea, then seem to drop it, then they rediscover it. They were indeed guilty for not pushing it more, given they actually pushed it in some of their first party titles once upon a time. Doesn't change a thing about PS3 being the first console with a default controller that supports gyro aiming as we use it today.

I know the numbers, they are on Nintendo's corporate website (which VGC looked at too). Switch isn't done yet and should be able to clear the 1.5 billion mark.

None of Nintendo's figures include digital-only titles, but it's self-evident that the digital-only business on Switch is tremendously bigger than on DS and Wii combined, so once you factor that in, it is the same ballpark.

1) I'm not going to argue whatever you claim you are but I do think only a PS fan would go to these lengths of telling us PS is responsible for gyro based motion controls lol. 

2) It doesn't matter who used waggle first, your use of waggle was an attempt to paint all Wii motion based gaming as waggle and tried to instead separate that from gyro because you are trying to push gyro to PS credit. 

3) Accelerometers are just less accurate, they both can be used to measure tilt but gyroscope are more accurate. This all just goes to your attempt at trying to give PS credit (yet you claim your're not a PS fan). You even go as far as saying why isn't this standard, yet on Nintendo platforms are standard at using motion based gaming including gyro. A Nintendo gamer wouldn't say that. I see now you are moving the goalpost to gyro aiming but what games supported that on PS3? One?, PS games don't even push for them now. I know the difference between gyro aiming, unlike you I play on Nintendo consoles where they are supported. This linage is directly from Wii where tilting the controller was a method for playing games, which is what gyroscope measure. Just far more accurate allowing for gyro aiming. Gyro aiming is not something we should thank PS3 for lol, the same platform that didn't and still doesn't implement. Either it's Wii or WiiU legacy, take your pick.

I should also mention the only reason gyro aiming is popular is because Nintendo removed the Wii's initial superior way of aiming with the ir pointer. Wii didn't need gyro aiming initially because it already had the ir pointer. Gyro aiming only took off on Nintendo platforms due to Splatoon and Nintendo's refocus back to dual sticks. Hopefully Nintendo brings back the superior method for gaming one day with ir pointer.

You obviously didn't bother and just skimmed through the posts, cause I've been talking about gyro aiming specifically from the very start.
About what you think I'm a fan of - honestly, I don't give a rats ass (this is coming from one of those 13 millions who actually has a WiiU).

To be fair I did read your post but you are correct you have been mainly focused on separating gyro aiming and motion controls. I don't agree that they aren't related but I do understand why you feel that way. Gyro aiming is still just tilting the controller and it being sensed more accurately by gyroscopes but I can understand why you see a difference in controlling your aim with motion/tilting than just tilting to steer for example. Still can't see why we should hand that legacy to PS3 of course, I think this is another example of Sony seeing something for the tech vs Nintendo seeing something for the fun/gameplay. Sony also created more accurate motion controls with PS move.

Yeah agreed on that, the Wii U Pro controller and the Xbox to this day missing gyro was a major miss, don't get how/why they messed that up, even PS4/5 have it, though unfortunately it's not as well supported there as I feel it should be.

I do get what you mean, I just personally feel it all still falls under the umbrella of "motion controls." Whether I'm tilting the controller to aim in TOTK or swinging it to emulate a sword in Switch Sports, it's all part of the same broader category for me.

What figure did you estimate with digital factored in? What of dsiware and wiiware?

I think the Switch would've been nearly just as successful in 2011 as it was in 2017. The concept along with playing great console like Nintendo games on the go would've been just as appealing.

However, I think Nintendo making a switch in 2011 would've been worse in some ways. I'm 2011 Nintendo's hardware teams were mostly led by older veterans who were a bit slower in embracing modern tech trends as the time. They still used proprietary charging ports instead of universal ports, still used an outdated resistive touch panels, and imo in terms of overall design it felt like they didn't look very sleek/modern. Proof alone is how the 3DS & Wii U were designed, they felt pretty outdated design wise in some ways, I feel like the Switch in 2011 would've been held back by the older veterans at Nintendo who didn't want to embrace modern features or designs as much as the younger team that developed the Switch.

I also think cause of the climate of video games at the time and the idea that "smartphones are gonna kill consoles", the Switch in 2011 probably would've tried to replicate a lot of smartphone features like adding a camera and an internet browser, along with other apps. Which may have been better in some ways, but in other ways a pointless waste of time and resources. Like nobody really cares to waste manufacturing costs on what could be going towards more powerful hardware towards adding a camera that very few would use over a smartphone.

However, it'll still be a massive success in 2011 just cause it's a hybrid console with Nintendo games, still selling over 100M+ units.

Simple actually, since I see gyro aiming as something that standard classic controllers with gyro do very well - and that's (more or less) about it when it comes to gyro in them. They are still just a standard controllers that have gyro in them to augment some of the gameplay, but for full motion control play, they are just plain terrible or completely unusable. So for me that's just standard gameplay + some.
Sixasis was made with this in mind. Sony indeed pushed initially for this (mentioned Warhawk (which is good), along with Lair (not that good), both from 2007, are examples of that early push), to drop it then, revive it on Vita with Uncharted and Killzone, and then again mostly forget it, then revive it again lately - they definitely have the problem to stick with what they come up with. WiiU Gamepad is just a standard gamepad with gyro (and screen obviously). Switch, when playing Doom, Sniper Elite, BotW, Splatoon (where all this discussion started) is, in effect, mobile WiiU Gamepad, or when disconnected from screen, just a standard gamepad with gyro. So that's why I see playing those and similar games with gyro aiming as something that goes way back to Sixaxis and PS3 that tried to establish gyro aiming as standard, albeit, with no great success.

On the other hand, Wiimote (specifically Wii Motion), Move, VR controllers...they are made to fully support motion gaming (especially in VR, with all the advanced trackings, body, fingers...) and are focused on completely different experiences than sitting and gyro aiming and thus are vastly superior for actual motion gaming.

Yes, gyro aiming is technically a subset of motion gaming, but one that is very small subset and that was tried to be standardized first on PS3 (again, with no great success), without making it about full motion gaming that Sony later jumped in with Move, directly influenced by the success of Wii. Hopefully, this makes it clear why I see them as somewhat different, especially when it comes to who did first attempts at codifying them as standards.

At least 1.8 billion. There have been a lot of indie success stories on Switch and there are thousands of digital-only games.

DSiWare and WiiWare had very few quality games and neither service offered any kinds of discounts on games, so I estimate combined sales to be below 25 million units. This puts total DS and Wii software at ~1.9 billion.