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Forums - Gaming - 3rd Party Exclusives are hurting the industry

Azzanation said:
KrspaceT said:

Long story short: third party exclusive content is bad when it just exists to harm the others. If a game only exists by being funded by the console maker (Bayonetta and possibly SF5), that's a very different situation

I 100% agree with you. If a company invests into the development of the game, that's perfectly fine. Bayonetta is a good example of this. Bayo wouldn't exist without Nintendo.

Also SF5 was moneyhatted, just like Tomb Raider for Xbox. Don't read into the corporate lies. Capcom was always going to make another Street Fighter game just like Crytal Dynamic was with Tomb Raider. They will sell it to the media that they helped, but both Sony and Xbox had nothing to do with the development of the games, they just gave them money in advance to lock them down.

If company A gives company B money for a game, how is that not investing in it's development?

Also I need to ask, but why do you think these companies are accepting money for exclusivity?



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twintail said:
Azzanation said:

I 100% agree with you. If a company invests into the development of the game, that's perfectly fine. Bayonetta is a good example of this. Bayo wouldn't exist without Nintendo.

Also SF5 was moneyhatted, just like Tomb Raider for Xbox. Don't read into the corporate lies. Capcom was always going to make another Street Fighter game just like Crytal Dynamic was with Tomb Raider. They will sell it to the media that they helped, but both Sony and Xbox had nothing to do with the development of the games, they just gave them money in advance to lock them down.

If company A gives company B money for a game, how is that not investing in it's development?

Also I need to ask, but why do you think these companies are accepting money for exclusivity?

It is a good question.  I often wonder if square regrets timed exclusivity.  I feel like they do, but that is speculation.  Sales just aren't what I believe they should be.



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Wman1996 said:

Third-party exclusives are usually BS, but outside of console exclusives (which still shouldn't really be a thing either) they aren't as prevalent anymore.
How many PS5 games are truly or even console exclusive to PS5? Maybe a few dozen? PS4 now is in a relatively similar boat since a lot of its exclusives are now on PC or PS5.
One of the few recent console exclusives that is ridiculous is FF7 Remake. The games should be on Xbox as well, and Part I of the Remake should come to Switch 2 (in the likely event Switch 2 can handle it). But nope, Square Enix recently confirmed that PlayStation is the only set of consoles the remake is planned to come to.
Admittedly, licensing and developing for more systems costs money. Still, the pros seem to outweight the cons.
It makes sense that Xbox Series X/S has no true exclusives and not a lot of console exclusives. It doesn't have DualSense or JoyCons, so what would you take advantage of?

Microsoft would demand parity on the Series S and it would be an extra hassle for SE. Plus, it would most likely go straight to Game Pass and they would have to negotiate a suitable compensation from Microsoft for all that, and maybe MS would not want to pay them as much as they would like and whatnot. When Sony offers them a deal, it must be fairly attractive comparatively.



To make a third party game across all consoles, you have to develop it for all consoles, which takes resources, which means your estimated revenue needs to overcome those expenses, for starters. But then you have to factor in possibilities of those developers working on something new and getting a better ROI with their time working on that.

For example:

If Team A makes Game A and releases it on console A, selling 6 million copies, and they project if they sold it on console B it would sell 2 million copies, but if they don't it would speed up development on their next game releasing on Console A by a year or two, which itself will sell another 6 million copies, then it may not be financially worth it to even bother with Console B.

If they have money to throw at a porting studio they could, but then that's once again money that could be invested in more *new* game development that has a better ROI. They could, instead of paying a porting studio money to port a game already made, invest that money in expanding their internal studios so they can push out more new games quicker.



I like exclusives. It gives each console a distinct flavor. If there were no exclusives, then you'd either end up with one console to rule them all (which would in turn, probably be very expensive due to it having a monopoly over the entire industry), or you'd have three bland, identity-less hunks of plastic. I would not like either scenario.



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Dante9 said:
Wman1996 said:

Third-party exclusives are usually BS, but outside of console exclusives (which still shouldn't really be a thing either) they aren't as prevalent anymore.
How many PS5 games are truly or even console exclusive to PS5? Maybe a few dozen? PS4 now is in a relatively similar boat since a lot of its exclusives are now on PC or PS5.
One of the few recent console exclusives that is ridiculous is FF7 Remake. The games should be on Xbox as well, and Part I of the Remake should come to Switch 2 (in the likely event Switch 2 can handle it). But nope, Square Enix recently confirmed that PlayStation is the only set of consoles the remake is planned to come to.
Admittedly, licensing and developing for more systems costs money. Still, the pros seem to outweight the cons.
It makes sense that Xbox Series X/S has no true exclusives and not a lot of console exclusives. It doesn't have DualSense or JoyCons, so what would you take advantage of?

Microsoft would demand parity on the Series S and it would be an extra hassle for SE. Plus, it would most likely go straight to Game Pass and they would have to negotiate a suitable compensation from Microsoft for all that, and maybe MS would not want to pay them as much as they would like and whatnot. When Sony offers them a deal, it must be fairly attractive comparatively.

Your points are well-taken. In this case, that's Microsoft's fault in third-party support. Series S support is a bottleneck and not a good requirement from Microsoft. Additionally, it's also their fault if they pressure or require third-party publishers to have Day One Game Pass support. 



Lifetime Sales Predictions 

Switch: 161 million (was 73 million, then 96 million, then 113 million, then 125 million, then 144 million, then 151 million, then 156 million)

PS5: 122 million (was 105 million, then 115 million) Xbox Series X/S: 38 million (was 60 million, then 67 million, then 57 million. then 48 million. then 40 million)

Switch 2: 120 million (was 116 million)

PS4: 120 mil (was 100 then 130 million, then 122 million) Xbox One: 51 mil (was 50 then 55 mil)

3DS: 75.5 mil (was 73, then 77 million)

"Let go your earthly tether, enter the void, empty and become wind." - Guru Laghima

Square will have a reckoning at some point, either they embrace full multiplat or they live with the fact that they are crippling their IP potential and their budgets are going to have to be locked down to compensate for low sales.

No one else really cares about exclusivity anymore beyond that, not even the "Enix" side of Square-Enix, Dragon Quest has gone multiplat and zero chance in hell they are dumb enough to skip the Switch 2 for the next DQ game, it probably will be on XBox too.



JWeinCom said:
Azzanation said:

It literally says "hypothetical" 

Also if a company invests into the development, sure, no issues being exclusives, if a company slides a $50 to keep a game off competition consoles, thats taking a short cut. Thats my point. Use the money to create or buy more studios to build a 1st party empire instead of hurting the competition by taking away games form other platforms. 

O_O................ that in no way is a coherent response to what I said. 

We know these deals are generally beneficial to third party devs or else they would not be pursuing them. So in a hypothetical world without third party exclusives they would be worse off. 

What you said after the also makes no sense either, but I'm only going to address one bad point at a time.

There are plenty of 3rd party games that don't have exclusive deals. Thats how it should be. The developers have a better chance of selling more copies making more profit just as much as receiving a payout to keep games off other platforms. Its anti competitive when companies have to pay to stop games releasing. If console manufacturers want to compete for the customers money, do it via 1st party games. 



twintail said:

If company A gives company B money for a game, how is that not investing in it's development?

Also I need to ask, but why do you think these companies are accepting money for exclusivity?

Because paying to keep games that already were giving budgets and in development to be made, is moneyhatting. 



Azzanation said:
JWeinCom said:

O_O................ that in no way is a coherent response to what I said. 

We know these deals are generally beneficial to third party devs or else they would not be pursuing them. So in a hypothetical world without third party exclusives they would be worse off. 

What you said after the also makes no sense either, but I'm only going to address one bad point at a time.

The developers have a better chance of selling more copies making more profit just as much as receiving a payout to keep games off other platforms.

I deleted everything that was irrelevant to the actual point.

On what's left, obviously developers disagree with you, or they would not be making these deals. They may not always be right, but I'm definitely going to take their word over yours on what is profitable.

That being said, it would be trivially easy to ensure that the deal works out for the third party developer. You can make the amount paid for exclusivity dependent on the amount sold on the platform it does release on. Take FFXVI for instance. Square has released other FF games and similar games on both Sony and Microsoft consoles and can reasonably estimate the sales breakdown between the two sales. For instance they can estimate that sales on XBox for FFXVI would be about 30% on XBox than they would be on PS5. So, you arrange that the fee for exclusivity would be somewhere around 30% of the profits generated by FFXVI on the PS5 (adjusting for things like lowered development costs for developing on one platform) and voila. Square is basically guaranteed not lose money.

Alternatively, you can make the exclusivity conditional. The game will be exclusive assuming it sells at least X million copies by 20XX. And if not, they are free to release it on another platform. This again allows the dev to essentially guarantee the deal works out for them. Again, you would have to account for things such as the decreased sales that will come from launching the game later, and so on.

And of course, profitability is not the end all be all. Companies often are willing to sacrifice potential profits for the sake of mitigating risks. That's basically the whole point of investing. 

There are tons of ways you can potentially arrange things, and it would be silly to analyze each of these hypothetical arrangements. The obvious conclusion though is this. If exclusivity agreements were not beneficial for third party developers they wouldn't exist. 

This thread is just an example of backwards reasoning (or just making intentionally bad arguments for engagement). You don't like third party exclusives, and you're entitled to that opinion, and are trying to come up with reasons it is bad after the fact.