"1) Developers have a larger market to sell their games on, increasing popularity and profits. Keeping the lights on."

That was literally exactly your first point.That third party exclusivity decreases probability and will prevent devs from keeping the lights on. XD That's the point I was arguing. As you are now saying the exact opposite, I accept your concession of the point.

What you quoted me as saying is not something I said, or even a reasonable paraphrase of something I actually said. I'm generally happy to defend the things I say, but I am not going to defend things I did not say.

Point proven.

Anyhow, didn't you define that some 3rd party exclusives were fine as long as support came from very early on in development?

  So I'm not exactly sure how you can say that certain 3rd party exclusives are ok, but then complain about 3rd party exclusives.

I'm also not sure (I mean, I in fact do) how you are able to determine which are ok and which arent, when you admit to not being able to know. 

I am a little confused with your entire Reponses. I have brought up the good and bad.

Exclusivity deals can also hurt the developers. We see it plenty of times where a game takes an exclusive deal, then undersells on its primary platform. 

Maybe i read into your replies too much, but it seems you were saying all devs take these deals when all i was pointing out that plenty of companies release games without deals.

1) What point did you prove?

2) Yes, exception to the rules. Examples: 2nd party games, Games that couldn't get the funding needed to be made, games going through development hell and require assistance etc. 

3) This isn't a hard concept to grasp Twin. Not all 3rd party deals are the same, you should know this, and I feel you do but you seem to want to get something else out of this conversation.

I did. I said years ago we would be seeing less and less exclusives and how exclusives will come to an end. Only type of excuslives in the future will be on digital stores. as in the futre you my friend will buy a box and install the PS store or Xbox store etc and play whatever.

Also @Bolded. ~What Publisher has done this?. I am playing more of what once was console exclusive games now then ever in the past on PC. That includes both Sony and MS first party games. So yeah even if you want to try play it off the days of exclusives are ending ,

You play exclusives on other platforms?

But don't you know that PS5 could see even more 3rd party exclusives than PS4 ?

If you're confused we'll take it slow. Please answer yes or no to these two questions. 

Quote 1: "What would the industry be like if all 3rd party games released on all platforms, with the only exception of exclusives are 1st party games. 

1) Developers have a larger market to sell their games on, increasing popularity and profits. Keeping the lights on."

Quote 2: "I am not arguing if it's hurting the devs, I am debating that it's hurting the industry."

Does your first quote say that third party exclusivity existing in the industry hurts third party developers by decreasing profitability and harming their prospects of staying in business? 

Does the second quote say that third party exclusivity does not (at least not necessarily) hurt third party developers?

If your answer to both of those questions is yes, and if you are honest it should be, then you have agreed to the point I was trying to make. That third party exclusivity does not necessarily hurt third party developers. Therefore the first reason you presented for third party exclusivity hurting the industry is wrong. If we agree on that point, we could potentially move on to the other reasons you have for exclusivity being bad, but don't know how inclined I am to continue as I'm not sure you're willing to honestly engage. I think I'm being extremely clear, and it honestly feels like you're just trying to change your argument (or rather that part of the argument) on the fly cause you see it is wrong. 

 I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume you genuinely misunderstood me. You absolutely read too much into my replies. In particular, you read the word ALL which I am fairly certain I never used. Clearly not all developers use third party exclusives and not all of them should.

My argument is that arms length deals made between two parties will  only be made if both parties find them to be beneficial. Developers sometimes opt to make their games exclusive, which means at least sometimes exclusivity is predicted to be beneficial. As these types of deals have been made for years, we can safely assume that in the past they have indeed turned out to be beneficial.

As most third party games are not exclusive, it is pretty clear that most of the times, making a game exclusive would be detrimental either to at least one of the parties involved. So, I'm obviously not arguing that all third party games should be exclusives. But, the option to make exclusivity deals is obviously beneficial to third parties. And so, what is best for them is probably to simply continue exactly as they have been doing. 

Yes, to both quotes.

There are good and bad sides to both these quotes. Yes, 3rd party deals can help some devs and sometimes releasing games on more platforms pay off better. 

Now I don't believe you have read the rest of my thread, but the reason why I am talking about this is because the console industry is stagnated, meaning its not growing, it's the same customers buying and rebuying the consoles. Today's generation simply don't care about it. The console market only cannibalizes sales off each other. Instead of Sony and MS competing by innovating and flooding the market with 1st party games, they rely on keeping games off each others platforms. We saw this with Tomb Raider, we see this with FF7 Remake etc. 

My thread is about if we removed the luxury of moneyhatting IPs from 3rd party developers, this pushes more focus on 1st party games and hardware. Nintendo is the only one in this industry that strives to find a bigger audience every generation, they innovate, and they sell their innovations based on their own IPs. Sony and MS are completely opposite, it's a fight on who can get marketing rights for GTA6, CoD, Fortnite etc. This is why PS and Xbox hardware is so similar. Very little innovation every generation.

In my opinion, Thats why the console market is stagnated. No risks are being taken to drive hardware further, and outside of the usual customers.